VI UPDATE
U.S. Virgin Islands Public Records
TRANSCRIPT OF PUBLIC PROCEEDINGS
| Committee on Rules and the Judiciary
Legislature USVI
February 10, 2022 · 3.5 hours · gov
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We'll be right back. Let's get started. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll be right back. Let's go. Oh God! Oh God! Oh my
God! Oh my God! And the tour in the night Oh my God! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey!
We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.
We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Thank you. Thank you. We'll be right back. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
I'll see you next time.
0:00:00
We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Thank you. We'll be right back. Thank you. We'll be right back. This is your life.
0:11:00
Transcription by CastingWords We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Good morning, colleagues.
0:14:30
Good morning to our hardworking central staff employees, good morning to our testifiers, and a special good morning to
the people of the U.S. Virgin Islands. Committee on Rules and Judiciary meeting of Thursday, February 10, 2022 is
hereby called to order. Before I proceed, I just wanted to speak about an issue that came to light actually on Tuesday, and
I heard the at-large senator yesterday allude to it, but on Tuesday morning I saw some very disturbing video footage
documenting a series of fights occurring at our territories' public schools, just as we started the in-person classes. It really
cemented in my mind more than ever the need for us to become in tune with what is happening to our children. We've all
gone through a very difficult time with a heightened stress levels associated with COVID-19. But the most vulnerable
among us, our children, have suffered even more. Social distancing and remote learning have changed the socialization
landscape that is instrumental to the optimal social and emotional development of our children. Parents, I'm speaking to
you now. Now more than ever, please encourage your children to make better decisions. Make an effort to connect with
them. Talk to them, ask them questions. Connect with them, even if it may seem uncomfortable at first.
0:16:13
Although they've grown up, they've grown taller than you, they may have bears on their face, they need you now more
than ever. Madam Clerk, can we have a roll call? Yes, Mr. Chair, Novell E. Francis Jr., Senator Francis present, Kenneth
L. Gittins, Senator Senator Gittins, absent. Senator Franklin D. Johnson. Senator Johnson, present. Senator Carla J.
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Joseph. Senator Joseph, present. Senator Steven D. Payne, senior. Senator Payne, present. Senator Milton E. Potter.
Senator Potter, present. Senator Genevieve R. Whittaker. Senator Whittaker, absent. Mr. Chair, we have five present, two
absent. Thank you very much, Madam Clerk. We have a quorum and we may proceed. Madam Clerk, are there any
pieces of correspondence to be read into the record at this time?
Yes, Mr. Chair. Sent via email, February 9th, 2022, Honorable Milton E. Potter, Chairman, Committee on Rules and
Judiciary, 34th Legislature of the Virgin Islands, Capitol Building, Charlotte O'Malley, St. Thomas, Virgin Islands,
00804. Dear Chairman Potter, please be advised that I will be late in attending the Rules and Judiciary Committee
hearing on February 10th, 2022. I will be joining in as soon as possible.
0:19:26
Sincerely, Genevieve Whitaker, Senator Whitaker, yes. The second piece of correspondence dated February 10th, 2022,
to the Honorable Milton Potter, Chairman, Committee on Rules and Judiciary, Capitol Building, St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin
Islands 00802. Dear Senator Potter, please excuse my absence at the Committee on Rules and Judiciary Hearings
scheduled for February 10th, 2022, as I have an unavoidable scheduling conflict. Thank you in advance for your
understanding. Sincerely, Kenneth L. Gittins, Senator.
0:20:02
And this concludes the correspondence, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Please record Senator Whitaker as tardy
and Senator Gittins as excused. Madam Clerk, can you please read today's agenda into the record? The agenda, the
Committee on Rules and Judiciary has scheduled a meeting for Thursday, February 10th, 2022 at 9.30 in the Earl B.
Otley Legislative Hall on St. Thomas to consider the following. In Block 1, Bill number 34-0190, an act amending Title
27, Virgin Islands Code, Chapter 4A, relating to the practice of professional counseling to modify and update licensure
requirements and for other related purposes.
0:20:51
Sponsored by Senator Marvin A. Blyden. Invited testifiers, Richard Evangelista, Commissioner, Department of Licensing
and Consumer Affairs, H. Natalie Hodge, Assistant Commissioner, Department of Licensing and Consumer Affairs, and
Geraldine Vivalve Esquire, General Counsel, Department of Licensing and Consumer Affairs, Dr. Vincentia Paul
Constantine, Chairwoman, Board of Licensed Counselors and Examiners. Tamara Mohammed, Vice Chairwoman, Board
of Licensed Counselors and Examiners. In block two, bill number 34-0147, an act amending the Virgin Islands Code,
Title 10, Chapter 1, Sections 2 and 3, relating to discrimination on the account of race to include discrimination on the
basis of hair texture or protective hairstyle, and amending Title 17, Chapter 3, relating to education to enact the creating a
respectful Respectful and Open World for Natural Hair Act, or the Virgin Islands Crown Act, sponsored by Senator Alma
Francis Heiliger. Bill number 340149, an act amending the Virgin Islands Code Title 18, Chapter 3, Section 53, updating
the record keeping practices of the Board of Elections to ensure all official records relating to elections are accessible to
the public through the use of technology and cloud-based services, sponsored by Senator Alma Francis Heiliger. And this
concludes the reading of the agenda, Mr. Chair.
0:21:55
Thank you very much, Madam Clerk. Colleagues, we will proceed with today's agenda, beginning with the first item in
Block 1, Bill number 34.0190. Who speaks to this bill? Senator Blyton, you're recognized for your introduction. Thank
you, Mr. Chair. Good morning to my colleagues. Good morning to the people of Virgin Islands. Good morning, central
staff. Bill number 34.0190, an act amending Title 27, Virgin Islands Code, Chapter 4A, related to the practice of
professional counseling to modify and update licensure requirements and for other related purposes. What the bill does, it
updates and strengthens educational requirements for professional counselors, substance abuse counselors, and family
and marriage therapists. It facilitates the development of approved supervisors, thus eliminating a bottleneck that has
created a shortage of providers and prevented qualified local professionals from engaging in a profession in a territory. It
strengthens professional, it strengthens provisions or prohibits and punish the employment of unlicensed counselors. It
requires criminal background checks for all applicants for licensure and it increases the number and type of continuing
education unit at the condition of license renewal.
0:24:05
This ensures that counselors will remain current in their field. According to the John Hopkins Institute, roughly one in
four Americans over the age of 18 suffers from a diagnosable behavioral health disorder in any given year. Many more
experience stressors and personal or professional issues that impact the quality of life for themselves and their families.
Not all or even most of these persons require psychiatric treatment or the assistance of a psychiatrist, but they do need
some help. Professional counselors, substance abuse counselors, and family therapists provide assistance in more
short-term issues and problems, as opposed to psychologists and psychiatrists who focus more on deep-seated and severe
behavioural health disorders. Why this bill is important. This measure will create a path for licenture of more providers
and approved supervisors in the territory while strengthening educational requirements and the regulation of the
profession in the territory. Under the current structure, the roadblocks of achieving licenture are such that nearly all
licensed counselors in a territory achieve their licensure in other jurisdictions. This means that young Virgin Islanders
returning to the territory after completing their training have no realistic pathway to participate in a territory unless they
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first gain their necessary experiment abroad. This bill solves that problem. It is important to speak about the importance
of training and licensing counselors locally because it speaks to the critical issue of cultural relevance. The Virgin Islands
is American in nationality, but its culture is unmistakably Afro and Latino Caribbean. This means that councillors must
be able to not just understand our accent, but understand who we are, other people, and other society. For those reasons,
for those reasons, For those who are not from this region, this can only happen when one spends time working with
people in their setting under the supervision of one who does have experience and knowledge of working in our culture.
This bill makes that possible. The shortage of behavioural health providers has been a critically important issue in the
territory for a long time. Just yesterday, we received an update from the Department of Health regarding the status of a
planned behavioural health facility.
0:27:54
In that update, the Department of Health spoke of the need to hire more behavioural health providers due to the increased
need for services. While this is critically important, we must also understand that it ensures that services are available on
a regular basis before the issue develops into a crisis. That is where this bill comes in, and it serves as a critical part of the
ongoing efforts. Over the last decade, the people of the Virgin Islands have experienced a series of economic, natural and
public health disasters that have vastly increased the stress levels of every single Virgin Islander. We have seen the
closure of Avenger and the shrinking of the Virgin Islands economy by nearly one-third.
0:28:34
We have experienced two historical devastating hurricanes, left that two weeks apart, and we have continued to struggle
through our pandemic that has claimed millions of lives throughout the world. As a result, the need for behavioral health
services has increased drastically, but the number of providers have actually declined, and the territory continues to lose
professionals in all areas. This bill addresses this problem in two ways, first, it will facilitate the licensing of more
professional counsellors, thus increasing a pool of providers, and secondly, by enhancing the regulation of the profession
and placing it in line with the highest standards. It paves the way for greater insurance coverage of professional
counselling services, thus increasing affordability for our residents in need of care. It must be noted that the provision of
this bill and of VA law regarding professional counselors do not affect pastors and spiritual leaders, as they do not
provide counseling services for a fee. And school counselors whose certification to serve in the educational system is
solely governed by the Board of Education by virtue of Title 17, Section 121 through 123, Virgin Islands Code. The
behavioral health of our people is just as important as of our physical health.
0:29:20
And I have always championed making service more available to our people. It is for this reason that I, along with former
Senator Sanis, sponsored act number 7827 in acting in 2016, which properly regulated a counseling in the territory for the
first time. Today, I am pleased to help continue that process by updating the Counselor Practice Act. It will increase
standards and improve regulation of the profession, and it will make counseling service more available for the average
Virgin Islander, particularly as we continue to grapple with these stressful times. I therefore ask my colleagues to support
me in sponsoring bill number 34.0190. And I believe Senator San Francis also did sign out of the sponsor and I want to
thank him for signing on.
0:30:52
And I just stated, Mr. Chair, that the starboard videos of our students, I mean, they are going through a lot. Many of them
have not been in school for some time now and no more than ever, they also desperately need counseling. And we know
we have a shortage. So this bill will go a long way to help in both of those situations. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, for
the time. Thank you very much, Senator Blyden. Colleagues, we have a number of testifiers from the Department of
Licensing and Consumer Affairs as well as the Board of Licensed Counselors and Examiners here with us today. I don't
believe Commissioner Evangelista is here but I think Assistant Commissioner Natalie Hodge may be sitting in his stead.
Testifiers, good morning to you. Welcome.
0:31:45
Before we proceed with your testimony, we will do our customary mic check. And just tell us your name and what you
do. And then we'll proceed with your testimony. So we'll start with Assistant Commissioner Hajj. Just state your name
and what you do. good morning can you hear me we're hearing you we're hearing you clearly Natalie Hodge
Commissioner of Department of License and Consumer Affairs and Administrator for the board I am here on behalf of
Commissioner Richard T.
0:32:42
Evangelista morning and welcome assistant Commissioner Hodge Geraldine Vaval, Esquire. Good morning, Geraldine
Vaval, General Counsel, DLCA. Thank you. We're hearing you loud and clear. Welcome, Attorney Vaval. Dr. Vincentia
Paul-Constantin. Good morning, I'm Dr. Vincentia Paul-Constantin, Chairperson of the Board of Licensed Counselors
and Examiners. Thank you. Welcome. We're we're hearing you clearly, Tamara Mohammed. Good morning, Tamara
Mohammed, Vice Chair of the Virgin Islands, Board of Licensed Counselors and Examiners.
0:33:20
Thank you, we're hearing you clearly. Also, and final two individuals who I don't see their names on this list, but please
let us know who you are. the gentleman on the left of our screen and the lady on the top left. Hi, good morning. Curtis
0:34:11
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Callender, secretary for the Virgin Islands Board of Licensed Counselors and Examiners. Morning and welcome, Mr.
Callender.
Good morning. This is Patricia Towel. i'm a member of the vi board of licensed counselors and examiners hi good
morning and welcome testifiers we'll begin with your testimony before you begin please just announce what who you are
tell us your name just for the uh the reporter reporter gave us specific instruction at every time you speak just tell us who
you are okay so we'll begin with you assistant commissioner Hodge you can proceed with your testimony hi Natalie had
just a commissioner for the LCA but more than our senator Milton E Potter and committee chair of the 34th was
legislature of the Virgin Islands committee and rules and judiciary committee senators present non committee senators it's
also present and the listening and viewing audience. My name is Natalie Hodge. I'm the Assistant Commissioner of the
Department of License and Consumer Affairs and Administrator to the Office of Boards and Commissions. Today, I am
accompanied by Attorney Jolene Doval, DLCA's General Counsel, Board Chair Dr. Vincentia Constantin, Rights Chair
Tamara Mohammed, and current members of the BI Board of Licensed Counselors and Examiners, Curtis Callender and
Patricia Cowell, hearing after referred to as the Board. Thank you for providing the LCA with the opportunity to testify
before the 34th Legislature on Bill No. 34-0-190, an act amending Title 27th Virgin Islands Code, Chapter 4A, relating to
the practice of professional consequences in the Territory by modifying licensure exemptions as well as eligibility
requirements.
0:34:45
Increasing the length of time board members shall serve, requiring criminal background checks of all applicants licensed
by the board and applicants seeking an initial licensure. This amendment also changes the initial and post-education
requirements, the completion of continuing education units for abuse counselors and family and marriage therapists. It
adds a new section listing to the functions that the professional counselors, substance abuse counselors, and marriage and
family therapists can perform. The amendment further strengthens the licensure requirements and increases the fines for
holding oneself out as a professional counselor in the territory without a valid license. The practice of professional
counseling services provides mental health and substance abuse care to individuals, families, and groups in treating
mental, behavioral, and emotional problems and disorders in our territory. The role of assisting clients in reaching the
optimal level of resolving negative patterns, prevention, rehabilitation, and improving the quality of life is vital in
navigating in day-to-day life, especially during the pandemic. Background investigation is a means of securing
information about the applicant from sources other than the applicant themselves. The ability to conduct background
checks to determine the accuracy of the information provided by the applicants. We'll assist the board in meeting the
obligation to protect the public in ensuring the applicants are qualified for the practice of professional counseling
services. Increasing the CEUs ensures that our licensed professionals sit up to date on certain topics, continue to learn in
their respective fields, and that they review the latest research.
0:36:42
Continuing education provides the perfect opportunity for those who offer professional counsel services to develop new
skills and demonstrate the familiarity with research-based, evidence-based, and validated care and treatments. The
increasing of fines will go a long way in deterring unscrupulous individuals from engaging in and offering services of a
professional counselor without being licensed, thereby adding another layer of protection for the public.
0:38:35
Thank you for the opportunity to comment on these amendments. We stand ready to answer any questions that this body
may have. Thank you very, very much for your testimony. Are there anybody else there with a testimony to be offered?
The board chair? Turn on your mic, Madam Board Chair. Yes, I do. Good morning. Good morning again. Good morning,
Honorable Milton E. Porter, Chairperson of the Committee on Rules and Judiciary of the 34th Legislature of the U.S.
Virgin Islands, Honorable Marvin A. Blighton, sponsor of Bill No. 34-0190, other members of the committee, other
senators present, and those in attendance, including those viewing via media. I am Dr. Vincentia Paul-Constantine,
chairperson of the Virgin Islands Board of Licensed counselors and examiners, a licensed professional counselor, and
national board certified counselor. My board and I are honored to appear before you today in support of bill number
34-0190, an act amending title 27 of the Virgin Islands Code chapter 4A relating to the practice of professional
counseling to modify and update licensure requirements and other related purposes. The Board of Licensed Counselors
and Examiners has taken the oath to accept responsibility for advocating for standards that protect members of our
community while providing equitable services
0:39:05
and increasing access to adequate behavioral health care. As such, it is our collective duty to identify and provide
solutions for potential issues that arise within the field as they relate to ethical standards, issuing licenses, and regulating
licensure. Today, we will identify areas of need while strengthening and expanding existing counseling codes to serve
and protect our community. After years of arduous and painstaking research and advocacy, under the leadership of
former Senator Samuel Sanis and sponsoring Senator Marvin A. Blyden, in 2016, Bill No. 31-0134 became a reality. This
bill established the framework for the Virgin Islands' first licensure board for professional counselors. This pivotal
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moment finally aligned the U.S. Virgin Islands with other states and jurisprudence throughout the United States. This
monumental decision increases access to care by providing an avenue for local persons educated in the field of
counseling to pursue professional licensure in the territory as well as regulating the field while providing protection for
the population although these measures are not noteworthy the most important aspect of this board is to address and
provide services to the ever-expanding mental health crisis and to respond now to this ongoing health and mental health
pandemic to date there are over
a dozen licensed professional counselors, marriage and family therapists, and substance abuse counselors in the territory.
Many of these individuals have had to obtain some of their education, experience, and professional licensure on the
mainland. The path to licensure has been laborious. Pursuing licensure after maintaining a master's degree is still elusive,
particularly for the population that this original bill was intended to assist. This is an important factor in acquiring and
maintaining wellness through representation. The proposed amendments will increase the ability for providers to meet the
unique social, cultural, and linguistic needs of their clients and increasing cultural awareness, all of which are linked to
more positive health outcomes. The areas highlighted will expand the existing code. The proposed amendments provide
for a more robust understanding of the profession and scope of practice. Establishing educational and experiential criteria
that is commensurate with national standards and forging a clearer path towards licensure through the formation of
associate professional license categories. Today, your vote in the affirmative to these proposed amendments will continue
to ensure a unified front in meeting the mental health needs of our community. Thank you for your time and attention we
are open and available to your questions thank you very much for your testimony dr constantin uh colleagues did we
capture all testifiers who um have provided a testimony i think so okay colleagues we will proceed with a five minute
round and we will start with senator noble francis you're recognized for your two minutes senator francis for your five
minutes i don't want to cheat you of your time five minutes under the front give me the time i'm not taking it back uh
good morning good morning to the people of the virgin islands and good morning colleague colleagues as well as good
morning to our testifiers thank you so much uh for your
0:42:49
testimony here this morning i certainly appreciate you being available um to speak on this very very important matter uh
so our community continues to live in constant trauma from gun violence and other of course and other sources of of um
of trauma when people are under constant pressure with no resources for help at some point in time they'll blow so i am
very appreciative of the work that dlca is doing to update our licensing code as well as working with the board remove
barriers that prevent us and to build capacity. I have a good friend Elizabeth Picardo that continues to talk about cultural
diversity and this amendment actually speaks to cultural sensitivity as well so I certainly support this particular measure. I
wanted to ask the panel before us and the chair and her membership how often does the board meet dr constantine here
we meet on a man on a monthly basis or as needed as as as we need to based on um extenuating circumstances and how
many applications uh for renewals or new applications have the board reviewed um within the last six months or so the
past six months we were um in formation of this board um as put as we engage with dlc to put out a memoratorium on
our board for formation structure to make sure that subcommittees of forms regulations are enforced ethical standards and
considerations are reviewed so for the past six months we've simply worked diligently to ensure that this board is solid
and can receive the applications we are now processing so yesterday we had a very robust
0:45:26
discussion with the department of health as well as the department of human services of course our social worker took
top stage um in respect to some of the challenges that we're experiencing in that field um but i i wanted to to find out
from you what are you seeing as some of the barriers what are some of the challenges that we're up against in being able
to attract um individuals to this field senator allow me to correct my previous response um we started issuing licenses
again last month after our short stint um information um to answer the question and then I'll allow my board members to
respond. As it pertains to violence in the community, was that the question?
0:47:37
Well, actually, the question was in regards to attracting individuals to this field. What are you seeing as some of the
barriers or challenges that, again, based on the conversation that we're having yesterday in respect to social workers and
the like, there seem to be a limited interest in this field, or I'd like to hear from you. What are you seeing from your
perspective as some of the barriers? On the local front, I've had the distinct pleasure of working in the state of Georgia
and also in the Virgin Islands. But on the local front, we do not have a university program that provide a master's level
degree in professional counseling or any variation of counseling there is. As a result, we tend to have universities lead the
charge in multidisciplinary programs and activities surrounding educational credentialing. And the University of the
Virgin Islands does not provide a local program for individuals who want to attend or be a part of this field. So, that is the
number one issue that we see secondarily a lot of our virgin islanders are not necessarily informed of what the practice of
counselor counseling and entails we've had social workers in the forefront of this movement we've had psychologists say
psychiatrists on the forefront of this movement is is only since 2016 we're now having conversations regarding
professional counseling and providing such services so it is a very very new field it's 20 years behind that of the mainland
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so we're now getting where we need to be and having these conversations but it it wasn't until now thanks to senator
sanus may i continue you may continue thank you and uh senator blyden and other individuals who were advocating
strongly for the diversity in care as it pertains to mental health
mr chair i heard my time call can i just wrap up with one um follow-up question you may wrap up senator thank you mr
chair and um my my final question to you and again i i um i'm hoping that you'll be able to market from your level at
these markets so that there'll be some interest in this field um moving forward but i wanted to ask you in respect to
suicides um obviously we as caribbean people are all often um you know very um hard to to break the cycle of of silence
and not speak about our inner feelings um as a licensed psychologist a licensed counselor how do you believe that we
could start to make some inroads in addressing some of the um you know this the suicidal tendencies that we're seeing
especially in our young people can you just speak to that real quickly any one of your counselors speak to that i'll
appreciate it thank you very much mr chair for the time thank you for your responses thank you very much senator
francis dr constantine you may answer the question um as caribbean people um we have such a religious underpinning
and and some some associations of guilt regarding suicide because that's what we were taught right We grew up in the
church, and we know taking our lives is simply not something we tend to consider on the forefront and even talk about it.
So as it pertains to that, that is really, that doesn't mean we are not having active suicide ideation.
0:50:35
It doesn't mean we don't think about it. We may not vocalize it. That doesn't mean we don't think or we don't consider
what it means to simply end the pain. Most people think about suicide as individuals who simply just want to die. That's
not the case. Suicide ideologies and tendencies and ideation have to do with simply ending the pain. I want the pain to
stop, and by any means necessary, I'm going to have this pain stop. I was just having a conversation with my vice chair
this morning about a six-year-old who attempted suicide. So based on our experiences, the population is getting younger
and younger, based on exposure and the pandemic and other variables in the homes as we have no control over. But that
it's no difference for us. It simply means that we are not comfortable as Caribbean folks in expressing suicide ideation.
Thank you very much. That's Alarm and six years old.
0:52:14
I was listening to the news recently I think it was CNN and they highlighted a former Miss America or Miss USA who
just had everything going for her, seemingly, at least from what we could see visually, and she jumped on top, you know,
from a 20-story building in, I think, in New York City and killed herself. So that's a powerful thing. I believe that we
definitely have to pay attention to the emotional and psychological needs of our people and particularly our young people
um senator pain you're recognized for your five minutes good morning mr chair thank you so very much for graciously
extending the seven minutes to the at large senator truly appreciate it good morning testifiers good morning to listen
interviewing audience um the chair stated earlier i made reference yesterday to some videos i was sent to my phone about
10 videos of our school children engaging in fights that were actually it didn't look like it does fire look a face of rage
almost like if they had like machetes and stuff that have been chopping off each other head and like actually trying to kill
each other there There wasn't a fight just, I dispute, I don't like you, and we're just having a fight. These were like feats of
rage. So I was wondering why the Department of Education didn't host workshops when school initially started.
0:53:14
Smaller groups and have professionals come into the schools and speak to the children. In smaller groups, asking them,
how are you feeling? What did you experience over the pandemic? Where's your mindset as a means of getting them
reacclimated back to being in a school setting? being confined for anyone it's not the easiest thing to just it's almost like
you have someone in prison and one of you just release them and expect them to just act like a model citizen the first day
they come from prison they need time to adjust and our kids needed time excuse me our children needed time to adjust
back to how we better come back into the function of actually attending school back into that routine of being around
children from other neighborhoods because if you follow social media if you track them you see that over this pandemic
that's all they had time to do is beef and feud with each other intensely via social media miss Hodge assistant
commissioner has good morning bill number 34 as you on five two is being considered in part to overcome the inability
to find members to serve an individual boards. What's your take on why it has been so difficult to secure for us to serve
on these boards? Good morning, Senator. Natalie Hodge from the LCA. My experience in speaking to members or
individuals when vetting them to serve on the board is coming before the Senate. I prefer not to be, you know, one to get
hung down. So they have that contention about coming before the Senate. In other trades, it's just time, I guess, a lot of
time. I just can't get, I myself personally call licensed individuals and vet them and ask them, you know, to serve on the
board, and I just can't get credible feedback.
0:54:52
Two minutes. Okay, please let, when you're doing recruitment and stuff for people to be on the board, let them know that
I'm not knocking anybody, not taking any of our predecessors or anything, But let them know if they come before the
34th, they'll be treated with the utmost respect and treated as the consummate professionals that they are. Tell them
there's no need to be afraid to come before this body. You're referencing your testimony that this bill increases the fines
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for Holden out.
Holden wants to be out as a professional counselor in order to practice in the territory without a valid license. Have there
been incidents in the territory wearing pastos who market themselves as professional counselors who have been
promoting themselves as such? and what has been done in addition to fines, were there any criminal charges levied
against anyone? Senator, I wouldn't say so much as imposters, but we have experience, and I will just answer quickly and
then defer to the board, but we've had experience where individuals, they're in the territory and they are operating, and
they may be licensed in another jurisdiction, but they just haven't come to the board and become licensed in the territory.
to perform so we have come upon one or two individuals doing so and i won't necessarily call them imposters um do you
currently have enough staff and resources to perform the background investigations and necessary to vet applicants who
are applying to get or renew a license for professional counseling services that's a very good question and i must say with
deeply appreciation to this body we've um i my office of woods and commission we were recently able to hire individuals
so uh time i will be coming at it for maybe one or two more individuals with licensing officers but currently we have an
attorney aboard we just interviewed a second attorney and i have i now have four staff members in the territory okay to
the chair could you follow the information that you the the bodies
0:57:32
that you need and the numbers and stuff and mr jay if i can ask one follow-up question there's one question to
chairwoman vincentia paul constantine please you may proceed senator okay um miss dr vincentia paul constantine good
morning how are you good morning how are you excellent excellent just one easy easy question for you um would you
support a bill that will allow psychologists who attend a university and take additional courses that would certify them to
be able to prescribe medication as we have a serious shortage of psychiatrists in the territory senator that's an interesting
question um and i'll do my best to answer um also to add that i don't think i'm well equipped um to answer that question
however i know the science of psychiatry is is one that deals with um dispensing medication that alters chemical makeup
of individuals um and this is this this entails medical training um this entails years of clinical research um this entails the
um the servicing of multiple populations of disciplinary approaches so if the continuing education of psychologists is an
inclusion of all of those areas that i have mentioned absolutely but if it's a um a watered down version of a medical doctor
md who specializes in in the chemical makeup of individuals with chronic and major mental health presentations
questions, then I'm not quite sure where I stand on that question.
0:59:19
Thank you very much for your very candid response, Dr. Constantine. Thank you very much for the time, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much. I can appreciate that response also, Dr. Constantine. Very, very diplomatic. Yes. Senator Joseph,
you're recognized for your four minutes. For your five minutes. Speaker number four, but I will give you five minutes. A
pleasant good day, Mr. Chairman, to our listening audience, a pleasant good day to our testifiers, and of course, the
people of the Virgin Islands. My dear Chairman likes to try to limit the amount of time I speak, as all of them do, but
that's not a worry for me. My voice shall and will be heard.
1:01:09
Testifiers, I want to, one, ask, begin asking some questions. Before I do that, I want to also commend the sponsor of this
legislation. So that you know my background, I have worked extensively with young people at risk, managing programs
for disconnected and disadvantaged young people, providing opportunities for them to transform their lives. i have
worked over the more than a decade in the trenches doing that and work hand in hand with a number of counselors in
both island district and social workers so i have a deep appreciation of the work that you do as counselors because i have
seen i have seen young people live be transformed through counseling and through that type of work that is provided and
so any any opportunity to continue to bring forward that level of critical service and add a level of authenticity to it as
well as strengthen the profession of counseling i am in support of it Now, I wanted, and I may have missed this answer
when I stepped out, and if I did, just for my benefit, Assistant Commissioner Hodge, kindly indicate for me how many
persons are currently on your board for the licensed counsellor and examiners.
1:01:57
I didn't see it. Good morning, Senator. I'm a commissioner. Currently, we have four board members. Four members, and
you need a total of seven, correct, to make a quorum? I mean, I'm sorry, to make a full complement is seven, correct?
That is correct.
1:03:39
Okay, seven. Okay. And how many of them, their terms have expired? Good, good, good. So we just need three
additional one. Okay. And now my questioning will go to the chairwoman who spoke and answered a question very
diplomatically. That's what I expect from a counselor. I don't have those traits. I'm just very direct. I wanted to ask you
relative two minutes to your ability to ensure that you carry out in particular because i did a quick review of the bill in
particular uh subsection or section 209 which requires you um to have a minimum the persons will have to be able to
have a super to be supervised under the supervision of a board approved supervisor and a minimum of a hundred hours of
clinical supervision do we have sufficient places for them to those candidates for counseling licensure to have this
requirement and I will say this because I recall vividly my relationship when I worked managing the program is youth
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build that we would actually have young people or graduates come to the facility to actually work with our counselor
who at the time she was a licensed counselor and she also was a licensed social worker so let me let me ask you if if that
it's do we have sufficient places do we have sufficient license counselors to provide this aspect of what this bill
is speaking to now would speak to now dr. Constantine good morning senator dr. Constantine here. I think the question is
not a matter of places, but it's a matter of persons. We do have several places throughout the territory. The places is not
the issue we had. It's the persons, which is why our short stint under the memoratorium was to allow the board formation
to put those applications and expertise of this collective body and ensuring that when the application becomes available
to the public that we are well equipped to vet these individuals that who will be supervisors of new counselors or those
who are coming in and need some more educational foundation on cultural competence and how to relate to all unique
population very different from the rest of the world. So it's not a matter of places. It's a matter of persons.
1:06:15
Okay. So do we have sufficient persons? This is why we are here. We are here to explain that yes, we have recently
licensed 20 plus individuals and we are now in the process of making these applications available. Okay, great. So I'm
glad to hear that you have licensed 20 plus individuals and you don't foresee that the implementation of this legislation
will be a hindrance but would be a help in achieving. Because, Mr. Chairman, if I may, I know my time has been called
and I'm trying for the new year to respect my time.
1:07:20
You can quickly wrap up. You can quickly wrap up, Senator. I'm happy that that brings a lot of joy to all my colleagues.
But my concern is that we need to have, because of the level of challenges, psychological and mental challenges we are
experiencing in our community, we definitely need to have as much counselors. We had a conversation yesterday in the
committee on health and human services and hospitals regarding social workers. Social workers and counselors work
hand in hand to provide needed services to transform the lives of individuals. And so I definitely at the appropriate time,
Mr. Chairman, will be casting my vote accordingly. Thank you kindly, Mr. Chairman, for the leeway. Thank you very
much, Senator Joseph.
1:08:01
Senator Franklin Johnson, you're recognized for your five minutes. Good morning. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Good morning to my colleagues. Good morning to the viewing and listening audience. And good morning to the
testifiers. Dr. Constantine, good morning. How are you doing this morning? I would like to start my question to Dr.
Constantine. What is the current composition of the board in terms of profession? Okay. I'm a licensed professional
counselor. I'm also board certified.
1:09:04
the chairperson with me. I have Mrs. Tamara Mohammed, who's also a licensed professional counselor. And I believe
Ms. Mohammed is licensed in just all about 50 states at this point. I have Mrs. Towell, who's also a licensed professional
counselor and the director of counseling services at the University of the Virgin Islands. And I have Mr. Curtis Callender,
our secretary, who is our first substance licensed counselor in the territory and also a licensed professional counselor
thank you and um does the board conduct outreach to grow this profession at this time yes um again i'm going to
reference our short stint we have been able to make some national partnerships to vet applications and make the process
go a bit faster since we are three persons short on this board so we partnered with NBCC to ensure that the standards are
equitable it's it's fair so individuals who are licensed in the virgin islands can license can be licensed anywhere right so so
we're able to do that we are partnering with chapters throughout the nation georgia being one of them licensed
professional counseling associations my chairperson and i we have a meeting tomorrow to start a local chapter for
american health counseling association in the territory so we are having conversation regarding a compact bill which we
understand some of the stipulations around that for our population and its unique presentations but we have been working
as in our infancy stage we've been working diligently
1:09:49
to put some respect on this profession you know mental health can affect anyone up to even those who providing it does
it help protect but practitioners have a monitor program for for your colleagues to make sure that people are getting help.
Our governing code, American Counseling Association, actually demands that professional counselors themselves seek
supervision. I have two because I'm quite unique. So I need more than one person to help ground and stabilize me um
based on the work that i do um we engage in ongoing self-care or we should engage in ongoing self-care um one of our
issues as counselors is we give so much sometimes that we forget that we are the reason why we're able to do this work is
we have to of course point to ourselves so hence why we have a code to continue to encourage us to take care of
ourselves but we're not immune to the issues like everyone else we're not exempt from mental health presentations and
life doesn't give us an exemption because we're counselors so as it pertains to a redemptive program we are having
discussion about what that looks like for professional counselors but we are not there yet thank you i'm really interested
in that and i hope that you guys could cross that bridge in your experience what are some of the issues most of our young
children this community is having do you you bring it back to a substance abuse that creates a lot of these problems when
i say substance different drugs right marijuana whatever drugs do you you know have you come to that basis of of what
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most of the problems that they're encountering that creates these problems with them you know experiencing this mental
challenge at this young age may i pass this
on to our Substance License Counselor, Senator? Please. Hi, good morning again. Curtis Callender, Secretary for the
Board of License Counselors and Examiners. As far as what some of the major issues are for the young population, you
know, I would say that it comes down to lack of coping skills and lack of conflict resolution scales. And I think that those
are two of the major issues that I think are facing the population and therefore they expand into different arenas. You
know, because there's a lack of conflict resolution, you end up in situations where you can't resolve a small situation and
you end up fighting. Chair, if I may wrap up with a question.
1:13:48
you know because the first thing to do is you look into you know uh good morning miss haj my question to you when a
problem is experienced with a practitioner where can the complaint be filed from someone who experience problem with
a practitioner that uh good morning senator natalie hodge a complaint may be filed um online at our website at
www.dlca.vi.gov or email you can email me directly um upon receipt i forward the complaint to the board and have you
guys been received receiving numerous complaints lately any complaint really any complaint not just pertaining to this
board senator repeat your question senator johnson again repeat your question did you ask any complaint not just
pertaining to the board or any and all complaints my question was have you guys receiving complaints from you know
clients that are complaining about the practitioner not providing proper service or issues with the practitioner providing
that consultation no senator but we have received complaints um we've investigated complaints on practitioners in the
territory without being properly licensed but none on the um the practitioner's practice no thank you very much thank you
very much mr chair thank you very much
1:14:44
senator johnson uh senator whitaker you are now recognized for your five minutes good morning chairman good to my
colleagues good morning to people of the pounds good morning to the test thank you and i want to um well first off i
want to start off this um by just thanking counselors it's been a i mean as we know right now endemic all going on that
we know the importance of this profession but also do join in commending the bill sponsor um what i want to dive into is
um twofold one is um first uh to commissioner natalie hodd um really and truly um i wanted to kind of get a sense of
what working relationship and connection does um like the lca have with the counselors within the school system what
levels of um both communication as we work to support um what counseling in the schools themselves good morning
senator um councils within the school system dlcas itself we haven't had any communication with them unless they're
here to obtain a license so i just want to be clear what i'm what i'm getting at is dlcas um i not just the structure of them of
licensed school counselors being licensed going through that process there's a facilitation that the lca um should be
engaging in whereby um you are also developing communication around um up you know about policies and procedures
with respect to that and just keeping up to date and working with them i think that need that that needs to raise um right
now um i do have a constituent that had a concern i don't want to bring up during this hearing um but i do know of uh a
real situation between um the department education and how um in the one at least one instance that i'm aware of where
the person was um given a title and then the issue was coming up with the license and things of that nature so there's
some real issues and outside of just being the entity that is licensing there comes with communication and outreach to the
counseling and that has to step up dlc is not doing that i want to now turn turn over to now the matter of um to dr um dr
constantine um how i want to get into the counseling areas um there's a lot named in the bill um are you also within
counseling has there also been And lovely, let's just put it out there in terms of, do you understand when I say
naturopathic, when I talk about naturopathic health, maybe energy work around counts. Is that something new to you or
foreign, or are you familiar with that area of practice?
1:16:41
Female Speaker 1 I'm sorry, you, good morning, Senator. I'm sorry, there was some glitches in your question. Can you
ask that question again, please? Sure. When it comes to naturopathic care and counseling, have you done any work in that
area in terms of naturopathy and counseling? I haven't personally. However, these individuals are referred to as spiritual
counselors. They deal with grounding, earth-related sciences, is a yoga, meditation, that type of thing. But personally, me,
no, I haven't dabbled in that area, no. Female Speaker 1- Yes, it wasn't a personal question.
1:19:54
Because here we are dealing with legislation whereby we have different areas of counseling. And so do you, I know
there's a willingness to work with that community that do you think that we would need to actually add that to this
legislation? in order for that to occur so the the field of of counseling um has one licensed professional counselors
substance abuse counselors family and marriage therapists everything else is an extension of those areas so individuals
who are licensed in one of these areas can certainly add what we refer to as certifications to expand the experience and in
the expertise. So, if an individual is certified in yoga, certainly they can incorporate that to the practice of counseling. But
it's not a separate area of counseling. You've got to have the credentialing for the foundational aspects first, and then you
can add on multiple certifications in areas of interest as you choose.
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Thank you for that. And certainly, as we go forward, I will, I myself am working on naturopathic legislation, so we're
going to have a little more in-depth discussions. We're going to have to actually put that into the legislation to make sure
that we're inclusive of that community. Also, to Dr. Constantine, in terms of the board, how often does the board meet? Is
the board being sure to abide by the open records, you know, just abide by law in terms of making sure the meetings are
open to the public, are advertised? You know, is that taking place? and how often was the last meeting you've had?
1:21:44
Our last meeting was last month, I believe the 20-something Thursday, the last Thursday of the month. So we meet
regularly, to answer your question. In terms of public access, I believe the DLCA department does that. In terms of the
board, we're not quite sure how that is advertised. to the public. But certainly, the information is available to the public if
they so desire to be a part of the process.
1:22:22
Male Speaker 1 Thank you very much. Female Speaker 1 Thank you so to Natalie Hutch. I mean, I'm not aware of seeing
any information about the board meetings. So, how, in fact, is the sharing with the public the board meeting information
and to go to join? Because we have a number of boards that are on social media. They've put up press releases on their
website. They have links to their, you know, join meetings. Can you please clarify that? How, in fact, the public is aware
of these meetings? Senator Whitaker, your time is called, but I'm going to let the testifier just answer the question on the
chair's time.
1:22:57
Oh, sure. That was my last question. Okay. Thank you. ask hi senator good morning um thank you for that question
currently because i'm now um fully my my office my administrative staff i'm fully equipped we will proceed with press
releases and announcement on our facebook page previously i had a survey shortage it was only me and one team
members, so some of the notices to the public went undone.
1:23:37
Thank you very much for your response. I definitely have a couple questions. I wanted to know what is the typical
timeline on an average basis from the time a candidate applies for licensure to them being issued a license? What's a
typical timeline? Dr. Constantine here. Our process has changed. Initially the board was responsible for issuing licenses.
We would meet depending on how many interests we have. We would go through based on date of application received
depending on whether or not the application is fully completed the application is multi-tiered there are several
accommodating supplemental information we're seeking for full application which we generally don't have since our
short stint we have since turned over that responsibility to nbcc if individuals are again submitting application that are
fully completed the turnaround time is within 30 days that they receive notification that the license was approved and dlc
moves forward in issuing such licensure okay 30 days is a reasonable time time span um in terms of i think you
mentioned earlier that in the past most of the councillors were coming from other jurisdictions and it was you were
challenged based on the structure of the code you were challenged of finding local a councillors did I understand you
correctly when you said that and how does this bill open it up for local councilors senator may i move this question over
to my vice chair yes you may thank you
1:24:15
good morning senator tamara mohammed here um the entire set of amendments that we've submitted actually is in
support of and provides a framework for local counselors to be able to pursue licensure from the very beginning of
creating a provisional license category for locally educated individuals to begin obtaining the experiential requirements
the clinical hours and supervision that they need appointing who can be an approved supervisor and allowing for two
tracks for the designation so that local individuals who have been practicing in the field can qualify to be an approved
supervisor as well as expansion on the requirements in terms of the hours that they accrue and what examinations it
would need to take so all together what we did was provided a framework for the people that have been practicing that
are qualified and that are have the educational qualifications to be able to begin the track towards independent licensure
so as a whole all together we've provided the path towards licensure from obtaining your degree up to actual independent
licensure and seeing clients on your own so is there a pathway towards licensure that does not involve taking and passing
a national exam at this point currently there is not um the standard the national standard is to be able to demonstrate the
competencies in specific areas which we can only verify through the passing of an examination such as the ncmhce the
nce and the other associated examinations for marriage and family therapist and substance abuse counsellors.
1:26:27
What are the restrictions, and you mentioned provisional licensure, what are the restrictions or limitations as to what a
candidate who was issued provisional licensure can do versus someone who is fully licensed? Well, someone that would
have a provisional license would be, for example, an associate professional counsellor. they would be able to work
directly with clients under the supervision of a board approved supervisor, meaning they would meet regularly with their
supervisor to discuss cases, to get support clarification, as well as work on professional development. What it means is
they sort of work hand in hand with someone that's experienced in the field to be able to guide them to best support their
clients and take all of the academic knowledge they have gotten and some experience during their master's education and
put it into practice with the public. Excellent. What is the fundamental difference between a licensed clinical social
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worker and a licensed professional counselor? What do they do? What does one do versus the other?
um so i know the designations are a little bit different when we talk stateside versus in the territory i believe um for
clinical practice um it's the lcisw and there is actually no difference while the the positioning of their education and the
perspective that they use in supporting the public are a little bit different. Social workers are geared towards creating
social change and addressing barriers within systems. They still have the same clinical background, expertise, training
and education that we do.
1:29:46
With respect to insurance coverage, so I guess via EquiCare, the licensed counsellors, are they a part of the network so
that individuals with government insurance, for example, can solicit the services of a licensed professional counsellor and
they will be able to utilise their insurance card? As far as I know at this time, yes, licensed professional counsellors,
marriage and family therapists and substance abuse counselors. I may not be sure about the substance abuse counselor
piece, but the licensed marriage and family therapists and professional counselors, as far as I know, can credential
through VA EquiCare to provide services utilizing insurance benefits for their clients. Okay. My final question, and I
wasn't able to trip you up at all with any of my questions, and that's a great saying. Somebody mentioned self-care, and I
know my wife is a licensed clinical social worker, and I know that self-care is something I hear her talk about, and I think
it's probably a weakness in the profession because you keep going and going and provide services for everybody else, but
at some point, you're drained. And is there a move afoot? I mean, I would see some collaboration with some of the other
mental health professionals to have a mental health retreat or something like that for individuals in the profession to
deliberately and intentionally have something like that on an annual basis or twice per year where the social workers
come together, not necessarily just to talk shop but maybe to do a massage to you know do some uh some uh yoga or
whatever is is that something that you would be um that would make sense for you to collaborate with some of the other
mental health professionals to do something like that twice a year i think in general just as providers
1:30:28
different agencies, associations, boards in the territory, it would be a great idea for professionals to come together and
identify ways that they can care for self as well as you do the professional development piece. I know that usually that's
something that specific associations and agencies sponsor different events, but I think that that's an amazing idea for just
as behavioral health in general, the community to be able to come together and support one another. Who is, I guess, who
does that fall under? I'm not exactly sure, but I do agree that those are good things for all of us as wellness professionals
and helping professionals to do.
1:32:40
Thank you very much, testifiers, for your responses here today and your participation in this. Aaron, point of inquiry,
Senator Joseph. Point of inquiry. Senator Joseph will do her point of inquiry first, and then we'll move to you, Senator
Francis, for your point of inquiry. Yes, thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I wanted to ask Dr. Constantine whether she
has knowledge if there is a Virgin Islands Councilors Association? Is there a nonprofit association currently and instituted
here in the Virgin Islands?
1:33:25
Yes, Senator. There is a Virgin Islands local chapter for counseling professionals. Before this this board was enacted it
was um for the practice of school counselors um so we have been in communication for a larger representation of
licensed professional counselors to be a part of that board but prior to that as we said earlier the practice of counseling
and that is very new to the territory um however social workers have been on the scene on the pathway of having these
conversations regarding the profession of counseling so yes there is a local chapter thank you so much thank you very
much senator joseph senator francis you're recognized for your point of inquiry thank you very much mr chair just
quickly uh dr constantine what advice would you give to someone that may be on the fence about going into this
profession um so sell your profession at this time for interested individuals i mean we are constantly doing recruitment
and i know a number of people watch these programs uh watch these parents uh can you speak to what would you advise
them on in regards to your professor very good question um senator i i i don't think um this is a profession we choose um
this is a profession that choose us uh it it is a very um emotionally draining um in the same moment uplifting rewarding
but it demands that we take care of our own issues first before we can be present in somebody else's issue if i am forever
bombarded with all of my unresolved childhood traumas my failed relationships societal ills my issues and how i am
received in the community and how i present myself i am no use to the client across from me to the groups that i lead to
the organization that i run so while therapy or having a therapist is the end thing um now all over social media i have a
therapist hashtag i have
1:34:11
a therapist it does not um it does not include the toll the emotional toll that this profession can have on someone who's not
quite ready to understand what it means to hold somebody stuff their life that they look to you for the for the air that they
breathe until the next session you are so powerful in the movement of change in somebody's life a child who's been
violated for years sex trafficking clients um ongoing poverty gun violence you name it we do it we are on the forefront
for police officers firefighters senators psychiatrists lawyers attorneys judges teachers we are the glue that keeps this
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community and many communities together so as as cliche as it is today have a therapist it is can this therapist hold space
for the people that they treat thank you very much for that i i guess um i'll move on to the next profession and i can't
consider this one but um but seriously so what do you do to decompress i guess that that that leads me to my question to
you what do individuals in your um capacity do for decompression so i heard a question earlier about self-care um
occupational hazard you get a group of clinicians together we're going to talk about our clients we're going to talk about
what works
what didn't work how i felt how i didn't feel did i cried and i cried so self-care is an individual journey um what works for
me i work out um i like netflix um i i like libations um i enjoy cool session um there i i enjoy spending time with my
children i enjoy having um absolutely superficial conversation with my families i i enjoy vacationing so self-care for me
could be different things for somebody else who may enjoy gardening quiet time go on a hike um eating cooking so
self-care is not necessarily you know this this uniform thing that you do it can also mean a 10-minute check-in how am i
feeling and what do i need that what self-care can look like it doesn't have to be anything expensive extensive it simply
means what do i give myself to fill my cup that is self-care thank you very much for your response senator francis you
want to close out with something that That was, that final statement was profound, that I think it wrapped it up well.
Senator Francis, you can proceed.
1:38:29
Point of inquiry? Point of inquiry, Chairman? Senator Whitaker, you are recognized for your point of inquiry. Thank you.
And I really thank you, Dr. Konstantin, for your last statement. And this is also powerful. It's really important to have the
space. And, you know, there's a real powerful discussion today because even as I arrived here before today, I did a lot of
self-care. um i want to i i want to just um ask the final point of inquiry to both um after constantly as well as dr
muhammad um just a final thought on workforce development how do you um see the importance of education and
workforce development um in you know really you know us you know really working on the next generation of
counselors and you know where do you see that fitting in and how beyond this hearing today um there could be some
collective works um between um education efforts and um and certainly moving this legislation forward how do you see
workforce development fitting in an education around counseling literacy around council my statement um as i answer
this question may not be palatable um to all but I'm known for my directedness, so it's okay. I think counseling came
from a very white space, a space that doesn't necessarily look like me, sound like me, behave like me, have my
experiences. As the field evolves, we are now recognizing the need for cultural, ethical, ethnic, linguistic representations.
It's very, very difficult for someone, no matter their skin tone, to understand my trials, my pathways, my journey, unless
they have some level of internal personal connection with such realities. And the educational aspect, I would like to see
some African Caribbean relatedness to our experience in literature and how we perceive the world, particularly as black
people navigating societal ills pandemics which is very different for us than other populations um for the workforce i
would like to see an inclusion of emotional intelligence around professional developments how people relate to each
other we don't understand that
1:40:01
people come to work with all of this stuff they don't put it in a bag and leave it in the car you know they take it to work
and that is presented um through and we call it laziness lack of motivation but if i am bombarded with not being able to
feed my family and i'm unsafe in my environment do not expect productivity from me so if we're pushing emotional
intelligence support regulation we're pushing personnel safety security around mental health we get more productivity
from the people that we work with um that is my point on workforce development as it pertains to councillor councillor
thank you very much dr constantine point of inquiry well said senator chanson you're recognized for your point of inquiry
thank you very much mr chair and my question again is to dr constantine do you have any bilingual counselors on board
and if you do how many and and also french you know we have a growing population especially on the island of st
thomas because of uh french dialogue that out there that probably would need some assistance too so do you have any
bilingual or french counselor that would be able to provide and if so how many of them do you have thank you very
much mr chair well senator you're in good hands um french is my first language and creole was my second language, and
English is my third. Yes, we do have licensed professional counselors who speak multiple languages, French, Haitian,
Creole, St. Lucian, which is very different from Dominica or Creole. We have Hispanic or Latino, Latina populations
represented in the community and while we're thinking the standard language we also have folks who can relate with um
ebonics um which is powerful in which is powerful in the space yesterday i had a client and throughout the session she
kept hitting her head like this and i said girl you can just take it off just take it off so we can connect with each other that
simple statement in the
1:42:27
therapeutic space allow her to be herself so it's not simply the standard language that we communicate with our clients it's
can we reach them on the language in which they speak that is the most powerful exchange between clinician and kind
thank you very much dr constantine well well let me put you to a quick test thank you very much you passed the test
senator blighter now bill sponsor you're recognized for your five minutes please recognize senator blighton's mike thank
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you so much mr chair and good morning again to my colleagues and people of the virgin islands good conversation um
assistant commissioner hajj can you describe for the benefit of the committee and the public exactly how the current law
hamper's ability for licensed counselors in the territory good morning senator i will have to defer to the board to answer
that question Please Madam Chair I am sorry Could you repeat the question again please How does the current law that's
on the books right now Hamper Hamper the ability For licensed councillors in the territory At this time Thank you
Senator And thank you for your sponsorship Of this bill And thank you for being such a strong advocate for this field
over the years. As it pertains to the current codes, we do not have a clear path for local Virgin Islanders to seek any form
of counseling unless it's trying to pull classes from here, there, trying to get on some online courses with universities to
string some program along to meet the requirements as stated on the books. Developing categories of associate
professional counseling would allow us to help to ensure that these people are on the
path of clinical supervision hours by identifying clinical supervisors licensure and ensuring that these licenses are
available to virgin islanders and absolutely we need to petition the university of the virgin islands to create programs
master level programs for folks who would like to enter this profession so the amendments um proposed today will
simply create more of a clearer path for local virgin islanders to be in support of local virgin islanders okay thank you for
that also and we have seen many reports from around the country in the increase in drug dependency and alcohol since
the pandemic um what have you seen or glean here in the territory um I don't think it's a matter of the pandemic.
1:47:09
I think we have a therapeutic relationship with particular substances in the Virgin Islands, and I'm going to be quite
diplomatic in my response. Unfortunately, these substances are mixed, linked with other substances, And we're seeing an
increase in psychotic breaks, disassociation of thoughts, some cognitive impairments, some slowdown in the processing
of information. We're seeing some delayed reaction. We're seeing some unemotional availability of folks. We're seeing
some separation between caregivers and children. We're seeing things that are linked, not necessarily to the organic use
of the substance, but it's what else it's connected to. Folks must understand that our chemical makeups are all different.
1:48:05
And necessarily know what's inside will certainly have some long-term health complications and impact. That's what
we're seeing. We don't really have a narcotics problem in the Virgin islands as we do per capita on the U.S., but we do
have an alcohol-like problem. And as a direct result of the pandemic, we've seen increased cases of domestic violence,
violation. We've seen connectedness of families. When families got together after the hurricanes, there were a lot more
incest and sexual abuse and violation and rape. So, those things as a direct result, alcohol as a direct result of the
pandemic not necessarily um marijuana use okay and before my time is called can you tell us about the relationship
between strict professional standards insurance coverage and preferred provider organizations Do you have another
question? Proceed.
1:49:01
Okay. Strict professional standards. What's the other one? Strict professional standards. Insurance coverage. Was there
another one? Insurance coverage and preferred provider organizations. okay um strict professional standards means that
our standards are in line with the rest of the country time simply means that and you may proceed okay but simply means
that a counselor licensed in the virgin islands in texas and georgia florida the the regulations are the same they're they
have the very same level of clinical supervision hours expertise so when we say strict professional standards in ensuring
that our ethical standards and practices to ensure that there is a protection of clinician and also protection of the public by
national standards.
1:50:08
As it pertains to insurance coverage that anyone who is in need of service and they choose to see a counselor, that they
can have access through the health insurance coverages, including Medicaid, not yet Medicare. So, we're working on the
Medicare piece through legislation, but Medicaid and all major insurance panels accept and have been for the past 25, 30
years on the mainland. It's now becoming available to local Virgin Islanders. As it returns to preferred organizations, I
think an organization is preferred as long as they're licensed, experienced counselors who are providing services. That
doesn't mean pastoral counselors, spiritual counselors, yoga counselors, these folks are not of assistance to the
community. It simply means that the way they provide service is very different from us who provide it from a clinical
practitioner's guide and not necessarily from religious-based approaches and interventions.
1:51:09
So how does increasing standards help counseling to become more affordable? How does that work? Can you explain
that to us? How does increasing the standards Help Counseling to become more affordable So I don't think This is a
matter of increasing the standards The standards are pretty solid The standards that we have In the books now is Pretty
solid What we're doing is expanding the pathway So folks have access To licensure Our standards on the books Are
compatible to every other state there is in other territories. So it's not a matter of increasing the standards.
1:52:13
Let's give access to folks and make the codes and the bill a bit more comprehensive, a bit more directed, clearer for folks
who are interested in seeking licensure. Thank you so much, Dr. Constantine, and I want to thank you for your responses.
Mr. Chair, I want to thank you so much for the time. thank you very much senator blyton colleagues we have exhausted a
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round of questioning for this bill i think we had a very robust and very very good experience do i have a motion senator
francis you're recognized for your motion thank you very much mr chair mr chair and colleagues i move that bill number
34-0190 and act amending title 27 version of school chapter 4a relating to the practice of professional counseling to
modify and update licensure requirements and for other related purposes be approved by the committee of rules and
judiciary and sent to the full body for further consideration i so move second properly moved by senator francis seconded
by senator johnson and senator payne roll call on bill number 34-0190 senator novell e francis jr senator francis yay
senator kenneth l gittins senator gittins absent senator franklin d johnson Yes.
Senator Johnson, yay. Senator Karla J. Joseph, yes. Senator Joseph, yay. Senator Steven D. Payne, Sr. Yes. Senator
Payne, yay. Senator Milton E. Potter, yes. Senator Potter, yay. Senator Genevieve R. Whitaker, yay. Senator Whitaker,
yay.
1:54:36
Mr. Chair, we have six yay, one absent. Thank you very much, Madam Clerk. Colleagues, Bill Number 34-0190, an act
amending Title 27, Virgin Islands Code, Chapter 4A, relating to the practice of professional counseling to modify and
update licensure requirements and for other related purposes, has been favorably considered by the Committee on Rules
and Judiciary and will be forwarded to the full body for further consideration. Testifiers, thank you for your presence here
today. Thank you for your testimony. I will ask Dr. Constantine and Assistant Commissioner Hodge to please offer your
30 minute, 30 second, 30 second wrap up.
1:55:04
We'll start with Dr. Constantine. I would like to take a moment to thank all of you today. It's very different working in the
field and advocating for the field. This morning, allow us the opportunity to advocate for those proposed measures to
ensure that we have more equitable service in the territory. Particularly, this is especially important for me. I am from St.
Croix. I am a product of this community. This community is directly responsible for who I am. So it brings me great joy
to be able to come back and provide and lend my talents to the very same community who has molded me. So thank you
for your vote in the affirmative to ensure that these measures are carried through. Thank you for your passion and your
compassion this morning.
1:55:52
In having these conversations, I want to continue to have conversations around this profession so we can all, as a
collective body, understand who we are as professional counselors and the service that we'll provide. So I just wanted to
hold space for that, and thank you for the opportunity this morning. Thank you very much, Dr. Constanton. Assistant
Commissioner Hodge, you may proceed with your 30 seconds. I'm Natalie Hodge. On behalf of Commissioner T.
Evangelista, we'd like to thank all the who are involved in working and updating the statute, the Honorable Governor
Albert Bryan and his legal team, Senator Blyton, Senator Francis, and their staff, their hard work and time in working on
the amendment. To you, Senator Milton Potter, committee chair, the 34th legislature. Lastly, and most importantly,
appreciation to the V.I. Board of Counselors, members present and listening today, the DLCA staff and Attorney Jolene
D'Alvaro. Look forward to your favorable response on the passage of this bill.
1:56:52
Thank you very much, Assistant Commissioner Hodge. You all represented yourself well here. today that you officially
released from this hearing. Thank you again. Thank you. Point of personal privilege, Senator Blighton. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. I just want to say thank you to my colleagues and the testifiers for the support of this most important piece of
legislation. I look forward to it moving into the full body and having the same with those. Thank you so much. Have a
blessed day everyone.
1:58:14
Thank you very much, Senator Blyden. Colleagues, we'll move on to the next item on the agenda in block two. Madam
Clerk, can you please read the agenda for block number two into the record? Yes, Mr. Chair. Block two consists of bill
number 340147, An act amending the Virgin Islands Code, Title 10, Chapter 1, Section 2 and 3, relating to discrimination
on account of race, to include discrimination on the basis of hair texture or protective hairstyle. and amending title 17
chapter 3 relating to education to enact the creating a respectful and open world for natural hair Act or the Virgin Islands
Crown Act sponsored by Senator Alma Francis Heiliger bill number 34 0 1 4 9 an act amending the Virgin Islands Code
title 18 chapter 3 section 53 updating the record keeping practices of the Board of Election to to ensure all official records
relating to elections are accessible to the public through the use of technology and cloud-based services sponsored by
Senator Alma Frances Heiliger. This concludes the reading of block two, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much, Madam
Clerk. Senator Heiliger, you may proceed with your introduction.
1:58:54
Good morning, good morning to my colleagues, good morning to the people of this territory. First, I would like to first
say thank you to my colleagues who have engaged me with extensive dialogue as it relates to this piece of legislation.
One of the things that I had recognized that as a predominantly Afro-Caribbean, Afro-American community, at first when
I first started to have conversations with members of this community about the need for an act such as this, I at first
thought it was a moot situation. Because we as a people just assume that because of our skin tone, we are the majority,
but we do not realize that we are also the minority in many areas when it comes to social and economic situations.
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Unfortunately, one of the things that is God given to us, such as our skin tone, our hair texture, are oftentimes utilized in a
way as a race-based situation to discriminate against us.
And after speaking to many in this community and recognizing that this has been a problem for so many of them, while
so many of them were clueless that it was even happening in our community, I felt that even a piece of legislation such as
this that could assist with making sure that when it comes to your race, when it comes to something that you have no
control over. I don't have the rights, after my parents decided that I would be here, I can't go back and undo it. I cannot go
back and undo the skin color, I cannot go back and undo my hair texture. But when we live in a society that just a short
years ago, your skin tone was used to stop you from even elevating in a society, and as we shifted away from that, we
have now started to use things as people's hair texture. That is something we cannot allow to be advanced in our society.
This Crown Act movement is something, not only that I would like to see happen here locally, it is something that's being
pushed nationally. I think many states and the almost 20 states that have already enacted legislation to deal with
discriminatory actions towards people of color, they see what needs to be done.
2:01:56
And I am hoping today that my colleagues understand that something might not happen to you personally, but we have to
represent the entire masses. And if there's even one person that's headed to a job that's being told that you don't deserve to
be here or you could be fired or I will put you out of this job because I decided that the way you're here that naturally
comes out of your body and the way you choose to carry it, groomed is not good enough for our society that has chosen
often to adapt a Eurocentric style.
2:03:28
I am simply asking that my colleagues that when we had discussed this previously in the education committee, we talked
about a lot of things and how certain aspects of this bill needed to be amended. And in my attempts to do so, and even on
the floor at the time, I tried to explain certain aspects. One of the things that on the floor that day that my colleagues had
suggest as an amendment to this piece of legislation was to include the word employment to make sure that everyone
understood that it also covered the workplace. One of the things I tried to explain, and I'm taking the time out, I pulled up
the law itself. The reason why we never specifically put the word employment in the legislation is that the chapter that we
are amending already references it. So we only, in this piece of legislation, reference the areas we were attempting to
change. because we're attempting to change Title 10, Chapter 1, Section 2 and 3, but also in the VI Code as it stands right
now.
2:04:05
Section 3A1, Title 10, Chapter 1 says, A, all natural persons within the jurisdiction of the United States Virgin Islands,
without regards to race, creed, color, or national origin, and subject only to the conditions and limitations established by
law and applicable in like manner to all persons are entitled to one equal treatment with respect to employment, pay, and
working conditions in and all businesses and industry and with respect to union membership. So because I was not
attempting to amend that section of the code which is already there, is the reason why we never put it in here. So there's
nothing really for me to amend when it already exists in that section. The other concern some of my colleagues had
shared had to do with if we do go ahead and process this piece of legislation to protect and place your natural born God
giving hair textures under the fact of your race, they were concerned about agencies that have laws that could supersede
this for like health reasons or reasons where for health reasons and other reasons of safety and other things. And one of
my colleagues had suggested that we add in the word OSHA into the code. When we attempted to go and look within the
code, and that was something else we tried to express, that that particular section of the law already has discussion to
establish law that would easily supersede this. Now, I would like to read that section that says section 3B. No person
being the owner, proprietor, superintendent, manager, agent, or employee of any publicly licensed business or any other
business or industrial establishment shall directly, indirectly, by subterfuge, deny employment in or at such business to
any applicant, therefore, or engage in or permit any discrimination or differential in pay or working conditions for
workers doing the same work on account of race, creed, color, or national origin, subject only to the conditions and
2:05:18
limitations established by law and applicable in like manner to all persons. When we checked with legal and checked
with, we were, it was shared that that one particular line covers laws that are already in existence that could potentially
supersede this. So to now put in just the word OSHA, when there might be other federal agencies that could already
supersede for safety and health purposes, it was not something necessary when the law already spoke to specific aspects
that could already supersede in cases of these. This piece of legislation is not only important to me, but to many people
that have been discriminated against in our community. I don't think a lot of times when we hear of, and I'm going back
to the conversations that took place during the last hearing, when some colleagues were concerned that, you know, I grew
up and I never had this issue. I could always comb my hair the way I want to.
2:08:04
I could always do this, but that's something personal to you. As a representative, I reach out and I speak to individuals
and understand what happened to them. And if enough people are saying, Senator, this is something that is happening in
schools, it is happening in workplaces, you start to look at the demographics and the numbers and question, if we're
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saying that this should not be a problem because the majority of the people in this territory are of African descent, look at
it from the perspective of who runs the majority of the businesses. When I had to hear the story of an individual that
worked at a hotel in St. John, that she was threatened consistently to cut off her locks that she chose to wear, when we
here in this same establishment have senators at the highest that do wear their natural hair. Why should the very people
we represent be threatened in the workplace to not be allowed to wear their hair once it's groomed?
We're not questioning whether the situation has to do with if you just want to wear your natural hair. I am speaking
specifically to the ability to wear it, but I am not going to feel that anyone should say, well, because your hair is natural
and you just wake up, that your hair shouldn't be groomed because that was also another concern of one of my colleagues
where it was grooming versus natural hair. That is not the issue. I am simply asking my colleagues today to really
recognize that this is happening here in our community. This is happening to our people and this is something that I am
asking you to support. There are many people across the nation that are backing legislation such as this, and I have shared
that in almost 20 states they have already enacted laws to protect against the discrimination based on race as it relates to
your hair texture. The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, NAACP, Delta Sigma Theta, Alpha
Kappa Alpha, Sigma Gamma Rho, Zeta Phi Beta, Link, Jackson Jill of America, the National Black Caucus of State
Legislatures. All of these people stand in unison. Over 85 businesses, over 85 corporations and organizations have
recognized throughout the United States and territories that unfortunately as much as we have advanced as much as we
have moved forward some of these things still
2:10:33
happen to us and I'm simply asking that my colleagues really look at this as a way to make sure that if even one person in
our society is being discriminated against we don't let it happen so I would like to ask for your support and thank you
very much for listening to my plea on behalf of the people of this territory thank you very much senator francis heiliger i
think you got the award for the longest introduction so you made your plea you made your plea um we will move to the
second bill in this block and it is again uh the prime sponsor is senator ama francis heiliger senator heiliger you're
recognized for your introduction good morning once again colleagues as it relates to bill number 34-0149 147 this piece
of legislation has been before this body and this is the third time and I am hoping that the third time is a charm this piece
of legislation is requesting that the Board of Elections I'm sorry 149 I'm sorry trying to make sure I have two bills in front
of me this piece of legislation speaks to the Board of Elections and asking to change a specific section in the code that has
been on the book since 1963 currently in the VI code there's a piece of legislation that speaks to public records and only
registered voters being able to go in and getting copies and being able to inspect public election records. One of the
things that I have noted in our society is that even though we have over 50 plus thousand people registered to vote, every
election time we are limited to some 20-something thousand showing up. One of the things
2:12:18
in coming to this institution and speaking to the public, they are looking for ways to get access to information in their
attempts to understand and better feel comfortable with their right to vote in knowing that they're right and their vote is
secured. And for me this measure is just another step forward to lending to transparency we have discussed this several
times within this body it was held twice and I went back and I took note and spoke to several of my colleagues and I
asked them can you please pay attention and really look to what the people are asking for some of the things in the last
meeting that they had concerns with and even speaking with Ms. Fox that she came and shared her concerns. The biggest
issue, because I attempted to create and draft a bill to open access to public information as it relates to election records,
unfortunately, in several attempts to do so the same message keep coming up from my colleagues some of them were
concerned about being totally open to the public because as the current law is written it is only limited to registered
voters. As an attempt to compromise and still get information out to the public my piece of legislation currently now
includes all registered voters and after speaking to colleagues as well as listening to the testimony and specifically some
of the concerns where
2:14:29
they felt that if you left the records just open to the public some individuals will come in for malicious reasons, collect the
data and information to sell for commercial purposes. Now I'm gonna sit here and say this to you, whether somebody is
registered or unregistered, it is up to the human being whether they have malicious purposes or not. But in our attempts to
protect and make sure that there are some limitations, during the testimony of Miss Fox, she did share with us that she
does not believe commercial use, and I'm going to quote, commercial use does not include scholarly journalistic political
including political fundraising or governmental purposes media uses or candidate uses we spoke about this on the floor
and we talked about referencing a California law that spoke to these things so in my attempt to have a form of
compromise to allow for this to be a little bit more open to get information onto the internet so the public could access but
the information that people have to walk in sign up for and register will continue to be limited to registered voters in
addition to the public that comes in and requested for the purposes and I want to say specifically for the purposes of
election scholarly journalistic political or governmental purposes and if they do come in and make those requests the
information once they fill out the form like they currently do right now and the information that we are requesting
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physical address their
mailing address contact information this is a form that was shown to us here on on the Senate floor by the supervisor of
elections that is currently being used, basically the same information. And as a compromise, we have limited it to those
things that she shared was not, she does not believe is for commercial use. So I'm asking my colleagues to at least allow a
law that has been sitting on the books for almost 60 years to be updated in a way that we can move to modern times, give
people access to more information, and allow them to be able to see the transparency of this government in our attempts
as lawmakers to do better. Thank you very much, and I ask for your support.
2:18:21
Thank you very much, Senator Francis Heiliger. Colleagues, I think both bills we've heard before were vetted. we had
testifiers come before us. So we're not going to have a lot of time afforded to these bills. I'm gonna give, we'll offer four
minutes, four minutes. We're gonna start with Senator Novel Francis. Senator Francis, you're recognized for your four
minutes.
2:19:17
Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I will need four minutes. As you have indicated, we have had a couple stab
at this particular, these two measures as before us. I certainly have heard the debate and the discussion in respect to Bill
34-0147, the Virgin Islands Crown Act. I'll tell you that being a cancer survivor, an individual that have gone through
chemotherapy and lost all of my hair, I have a different perspective on hair, but I will be supporting that measure as a
means of moving this bill forward. on Bill 34-0149. I'll continue to be consistent in my previous vote on this particular
matter and I'll continue to listen to the discussion and debate and make a determination at the time of voting, but I will be
standing consistent with my vote on Bill 34-0149. Thank you very much for the time, Mr. President. Thank you very
much, Senator Francis. Senator Payne, you're recognized for your four minutes thank you for the time mr chair uh
discrimination the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things especially undergrounds of
race age or sex what kind of stick out to me is unjust in 2019 the chronic which is driven across the u.s mainland is
basically a law which clarifies that black people should be allowed to wear their hair as it grows naturally and not be
forced to use chemicals to relax or straighten it let's go back a couple years uh titled seven of the civil rights act of 1964
prohibits racial discrimination however federal courts have said that only afros not
2:19:54
other natural hairstyles are protected under the law the seven u.s court of appeals ruled in 1976 an employer had violated
an employee's civil rights by denying a promotion to a worker who had grown an afro a hairstyle that gained prominence
in the 1916s as a political statement of black power when activists angela davis and reverend jesse jackson among others
chose to wear the hair as it grew naturally in a rounded shape so you can see that people have been people of color have
been facing discrimination of wearing what was given to them by the creator they're here. And it's very troubling that the
African-American community is still facing discrimination in the 21st century. Individuals being denied promotions or
even job opportunities because of the way they wear the hair. Employees looking at someone of color and deeming that
they must be a gangster or drug dealer simply because of a hairstyle. Never paying any attention to the degrees they hold,
or to the impeccable work experience record. However, one major difference is that we have also created discriminatory
policies against our own race. Our educational institutions that are run by people of color have also created
discriminatory policies against our own children.
2:21:46
Two minutes. I can remember several years ago, Mr. Chair, when I played music and traveled to our sister island of
Totola. You could not get into the BVI if you wore dreadlocks in your hair. Every time we traveled to the BVI, Raspher
was our mixer or sound engineer. He couldn't travel with the group. Even guys in the group who wear the hair in a nappy
hairstyle. Much like how most of the young men today wear the hair had to get an afro pick and rake out the hair if they
wanted to enter. So I must say major kudos to the bill sponsors for bringing forth this legislation to the territory as a
campaign to pass a chronic in every state and congress is steadily spreading throughout the mainland in regard to bill
number 34 as you want for nine i'm still not comfortable allowing information about individuals to be easily accessible
publicly by any and everyone and if you were involved in law enforcement maybe you would see personal information as
something sacred i don't have an issue with registered voters who have voluntarily placed the information within the
election system accessing information about like-minded registered voters. But I see how my colleagues feel about this
measure moving forward and vote accordingly at the appropriate time. Thank you for the time, Mr. Chair. Thank you
very much, Senator Payne. Senator Joseph, you're now recognized for your four minutes.
2:23:04
Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I want to really be clear on my position. I held it and I still hold it in when I was a
member of the Committee on Education and Workforce Development when this bill was initially heard, and I'm referring
to Bill 34.0147 regarding creating a respectful and open world for Natural Hair Act. At that time, my hair would be as
delineated in the bill in a protective hairstyle, which was braids. The invited testifiers, so that my colleagues would have a
perspective of understanding, the invited testifiers did not include the Department of Education, which this big speaks to.
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It did not include the Department of Justice, which this bill speaks to. And so, I had really major concerns relative to the
validity of discrimination being evidence in the Virgin Islands because of natural hairstyles. And I say this in realm of our
civil rights in Black History Month. We had a civil rights movement because we could document both visually and in
writing levels of discrimination, especially regarding the voting rights of our people in the 1960s. So I am not sold on Bill
34.0147 because I don't see that it was properly vetted in the Committee of Jurisdiction, committee of education and
workforce development and one of my colleagues who is a senate president had joined me in on that the only i will tell
you to be in all fairness one of the testifiers mr shamori moorhead and mrs kimberly moorhead they came forward in their
testimony and said their children were being discriminated against because of their hairstyle in the private schools not in
the public schools not even in the public schools okay so those are my critical issues regarding the bill does we we
haven't vetted we haven't seen evidence from those individuals who are actually in the education having heard cases labor
or the department of justice saying
2:25:24
yes we have evidence from a body that would would have that evidence because people would be filing cases and how it
has been addressed and so i will still put my concerns out because it still needs to be properly vetted and that is my
position when bills come before us we should always try to have a balance in who is testifying on it not just be one-sided
and the testifiers on this measure in the committee of jurisdiction that it originated from the committee on education and
workforce were one-sided in the level of testifiers that were testifying on this measure. They were no testimony from any
of the Department of Justice personnel, none from the Department of Education, nor from the Department of Labor.
These entities are the critical entities in the Virgin Islands that deals with discrimination and they were not even there so i
have some challenges my dear colleagues today voting on this prep prop this particular uh legislation and moving it
forward i don't mind what any other 50 say i have to say i'm sorry um mr chairman i'll wrap up you may wrap up thank
you kindly i don't care what any other 50 states have to say this is a virgin islands we deal with our business head
differently so that's my position mr chairman i thank you kindly for the time thank you very much senator joseph senator
johnson you're recognized for your four minutes
2:27:13
good morning thank you very much mr chair discrimination to one child in this territory is discrimination to all children
in this territory today for me tomorrow for you and we shouldn't have to wait until a child in the public school is
discriminated upon based on the style of his or her ear so when i hear someone say that a testifier came and say that their
child was discriminated in a private school that is our children i stand in full support of bill number 34-0-1-47 i can tell
you of stories that happened lately i can tell you about a judge that went and applied for a judgeship to the superior court
and he wear a ponytail and his question in his interview they asked him are you willing to cut this ponytail and he says no
he was not given that judgeship they didn't tell him that's the reason why they didn't give him the judgeship however that
judge end up getting a jab at the district court as a magistrate judge with the same ponytail and i like what my colleague
from the you know the the little island body which is called the big island say you can recall when rastaman kunigoto tola
from the virgin islands let's not wait for it to happen to our next person let's not wait for it to happen to our next child so i
stand firmly behind this and sometimes we don't have to wait for it to happen
2:29:05
to us unless that being naive is a set of people coming around here moving to these territory that will do anything to keep
a rasta man from coming on the job or arrest a woman so let's not play games with this please let's look out for people
and make sure That we speak up and speak up loud for them. On bill number 340149, I definitely will be supporting this
measure too. I can recall and through my experience in campaigning and being a part of many campaigns, some things
that was never clear to me and still have not been clear to me. And sometimes when you get access to more information,
you can clarify the issues or the problems that you see with this Board of Education.
2:30:58
I can recall clearly reaching out and asking about why there wasn't more absentee ballots. And I was told it was deliberate
to make sure that people use the machine. I can recall issues after issues in the 2014 election. when they went back in the
board and found people playing with ballots. So again, please, let's pay attention to what's happening around us and let's
support initiatives that's going to make us stronger people in every aspect of our territory. Thank you very much, Mr.
Chair.
2:31:54
Thank you very much, Senator Johnson. Senator Whitaker, you're recognized for your four minutes. Thank you,
Chairman. And I also just want the record to reflect that I am also a prime sponsor of this measure. I joined with the
sponsor of the measure and of the importance and even going through the process with the individuals impacted by this
legislation. and it's really important and speaking of course about the crown act and so we we do this f we make this
effort also on behalf of both children and adults um but before i make further statements i want to through the chair to
legal counsel as i did reach out to attorney tharps one of my constituents who is a supporter of the measure um they just
wanted some clarity on the rtc program the grooming standards whether this measure would have an impact because the
girls can now wear locks but the boys are prohibited. Through the chair to legal counsel, can you please clarify that if this
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would impact the ROTC program for the boys grooming standard? If my time could be held so we can get legal counsel
to answer my question.
Attorney Ayala is here. Senator Whitaker, he's going to be seated in a second and he'll be able to respond to your question
please please recognize the mic of attorney ayala Through the chair to Senator Whitaker, what specific question are you
asking? Can you please repeat your question, Senator Whitaker? Specifically, if the ROTC program currently does not
allow boys to wear locks, the girls can now, Would this legislation have any, they just had a question, would this have an
impact on the ROTC program, the forces administered by the military, by the U.S. military?
2:33:59
Through the chair to federal if they have a certain grooming, then that would prevail over this legislation. I think you're
familiar with that. Hold the mic closer to you, Attorney Ayala. It's going in and out. Where's the cable? Does that answer
your question, Senator Whittaker? I am saying, and I'm repeating that. Can you repeat it? Because I were a bit muffled
with your mask on. Can you repeat the answer, please?
2:35:07
I repeat that if the ROTC program is based on federal mandates and federal regulations, then those federal regulations
preempt local law. So, therefore, I don't know how amenable they would be to changing their standards. Does that answer
your question? So, this legislation cannot preempt federal statute. It does. It does.
2:35:50
And thank you for this. And the reason why I asked it that way is so that the public is also clear, because part of this
process, you have constituents who have concerns or questions about a measure, measure, and we do this to transparency
and openness. I understand that, but I also wanted it to be placed on the record that we also voice the concerns of those,
you know, who have the concern. I also want to also, in supporting this measure, really highlight that what we should try
to also receive from, as we go through the process from the education stakeholders, education um that we are going to
also have a clear um receipt of regulations coming to the legislature as well um in terms of that because one thing when
we pass the legislation to see how it's actually implementing in terms of blues and policies and finally um in terms of
when we're speaking about bill number 34-0149 in terms of the official records for the election system it's very important
to emphasize that there has to be a balance um there's certain information that that cannot be disclosed to the public and
then there's also um privacy concerns so there's a lot of things to weigh um but i i certainly support this measure because
as we know and as we focus in on the election system about it being cloud-based and we have a lot of a lot of agencies
that are really far away from really having cloud-based services and information um so there has to be definite balance
um i do agree um right now the um just to highlight um the way the system works is that the information is digital now
you know so um gone are the days of the black books and all those things which um my prior position i was happy to
shift us from um but are the the days now where we're using technology but we have to balance that for security safety
um election say you know everything has to be safe in the process and so um i i really want to highlight because another
public is i'm concerned um that in this particular arena the electricism has evolved greatly over the last um last eight you
know nine years um there's been a lot of evolution by way of um safekeeping of the information um and certainly um the
ensuring that the public has access and information. Thank you, Chairman.
2:36:24
Thank you very much, Senator Whitaker. I definitely have lived at a time regarding Bill 34.0147. I have lived during a
period where I've seen persons discriminated upon based on their hair nails based on the hair texture. Kinky hair was not
associated with, I guess, intelligence because in corporate America, I've seen folks denied a job, not because of the
intellect or intelligence, but simply based on how they wore their hair. And that is wrong. That is wrong, as close as my,
the place that I was born, Tortola, at one point in time, as my good colleague from St. John mentioned, persons were not
allowed to enter the BVI based on the texture of their hair.
2:38:42
It was associated with criminality, you know, doing things deviously, I mean, so those persons were turned back if they
attempted to enter that island with their hair in dreadlocks form. It's wrong. It is easy to, and I've seen places where you're
denied that job, you're denied entrance to an organization, you're not told that we are denying you because of the
dreadlocks that you have, but many of us know some of the hidden reasons why persons can be rejected. And hair texture
has been something that has been a real barrier for us. I think I'm seeing things change. Today, wearing your hair in a
kinky style does not bring the negative connotations and the negative feedback to the large level as it was in the past.
2:39:46
I am inclined to support this initiative to guarantee that persons with their dreadlocks or kinky hairstyle will have a cause
of action for discrimination if they believe that they were denied access to a job or a school environment because of the
hair. So I'm inclined to support that. Bill number 34-0149, I'm a little torn about that bill, and I had a conversation with
the bill's sponsor, who I have a great deal of respect for, Senator Francis Heiliger. I know that in speaking to the director
or the supervisor, Mrs. Fox, when she was here the last times, her concerns were two-fold. She had a concern about the
ten days that the bill imposed the turnaround time for a request, and she had a concern about granting card blanche access
to information to any and every person just based on their ability to control if someone had something that was less than
requesting the information for less than anything upfront or who had something nefarious plans for use of this
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information. She wanted to be able to have access to that registered voter. As a registered voter, you're required to
provide critical identifying information that, you know, we will be able to track you down
should you misuse this information. Opening it up to any and everyone can be somewhat problematic. And in speaking to
the bill's sponsor, I know she had an amendment which attempted to address that issue. I'm concerned that while it was an
effort to make some adjustment to it, I'm concerned that the language still opens it up too broadly to everyone and the
language that I spoke is that in section B of the amendment it says that these records are open to the public, the public
inspection for election, scholarly, journalistic, political, or governmental purposes, and the board shall provide copies of
such documents to any member of the public, not later than 10 business days afterwards. The 10 business days I can go
along with, in spite of the fact that the supervisor of election has some concerns about that timeline. I believe that 10
business days is sufficient for the board to provide the requested information. But I am still concerned with regards to the
language, which seems to do two things.
2:43:03
the beginning portion of the paragraph it says voter lists, registers, computer generated reports, data, accounts, campaign
disclosures, contracts and petitions, affidavits or any other document bearing the signature of a voter and any other
documents in custody of the Board of Elections are open to registered voters. So in that section, it does restrict it to
registered voters. But the next line, the next line is where my concerns lie. These records are open to public inspection for
election, scholarly, journalistic, political, or governmental purposes, and the board shall provide copies of such
documents to any member of the public, and that is where my concerns lie. At the appropriate time, I will vote
accordingly on these two pieces of legislation. Point of inquiry, Senator Frances Heiliger, you're recognized. I do
appreciate, Mr. Chair, that you did bring that up, and if it's a concern to clean that up, that is something I would be more
than happy to amend. But since we have legal counsel on the floor, through the chair, could legal counsel please share
with us what would be necessary, if any, because how it's written from what I, how we were, our intention was, and what
the law, how it's written, it says, oh, I have the wrong one.
2:44:36
but it's, I apologize, I picked up the two wrong amendments. That's the one copy. Thank you. I have so much paper. How
it is, what our intention was in the wake was written and through the chair to legal counsel. I want to ask if there's a
difference when you stress, when you reference the word such documents as opposed to just any documents. Now, it says
the records are open for public. When we spoke about this earlier, what the current law actually says right now, that it is
only limited 100% to only registered voters. The attempt of this legislation, part of it was to open information to the
public. And like I said after speaking, the concern was it just being open-ended. So what we did is we added in this
section that says the records are open to the public inspection for election, scholarly, journalistic, political, and
governmental purposes, and the board shall provide copies of such documents to any member of the public no later than
10 business days. And also at the end it speaks to the normal form that they utilize. What I would like to know from legal
counsel, if anything would have to be altered, or when it references such documents, it goes back to the documents that
are being required specifically under those limitations. Or would this now open it still to anybody, or when it says such
documents, it goes back to documents that are requested for elections, journalistic, political, and governmental purposes.
2:46:22
Through the chair to Senator Heiliger, such documents would be the documents that are being requested and by adding in
certain categories that you just put in there like Like for example, research, political research or what have you, you're
opening the legislation or the documents to any public, it doesn't have to be a registered voter. For example, you might
have a student or a group of students that are doing some kind of research and those documents would be open to them.
2:48:11
We understood that part. That's why previously the legislation just said public. So as a compromise, we limited it to
scholarly journalistic. What we're trying to get clarity on, their concern is that the second part that says such documents to
any member of the public within 10 days, because right now if they make a request, they fill out the form. We limited it.
We put, the law is registered voters, we're asking, when they walk in, whether registered or not, and they're saying they
would like this information, stay for, they're the media, and they would like it for journalistic purposes, would this now
open it still to anybody, or only for those people that said it was for journalistic purposes, because you're referencing such
documents?
2:49:06
Sorry, but I think the key here is, in addition to such documents, which goes back to the requested documents for
journalistic or whatever, it says such documents will be available to any member of the public. And that is where my
concerns really lie. The fact that it says it will be available to any member of the public, so any member of the public can
make the request to receive that information. Through the chair to the chair. You're correct, because, again, you have, if
you want to limit, then you have to put in specific language to limit the documents that would be available, because right
now, it's a blanket request, and the person doesn't have to be a registered voter. I understand fully what you're saying,
these are open ended. I can't put it any clearer, if you don't understand, then I can't go beyond that.
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Thank you. Could I just... Thank you very much, attorney Ayala. I'm not going to get in an argument with something
legal. I have stated the position of the legal council and I'm leaving it at that. Thank you very much. Colleagues, briefly.
Yes. Yes, I would like to thank legal counsel, and this is not a debate, but I think he's saying that it's open to the public,
and we are aware of that. I think that was the whole purpose of this, to add open-endedness to the public.
2:51:12
So I'm not questioning what he's saying. We are opening it to the public. We are limiting it to registered voters, and
there's a second sentence that opens it to the public. But the public can only come in and request it for these purposes. So
if somebody walks in and says, I would, from the public, and they're unregistered, and they say, I would like to have this
because I just want it, they can't get it. If they just walk in and say, I would like to have it because I just like to collect
these as souvenirs, they can't have it. They have to be able to say, I am a journalist. I am coming in here to request this
information. for journalistic purposes, and then it would be granted or not.
2:51:47
That's what I'm trying to clarify. And I hear what you're saying, but my concern is that anyone can come there and say, I
would like it. Point of inquiry? I would like it for, anyone can come here and say, I would like it for journalistic purposes.
Anybody off the street can come in. Any member of the public can say, look, I want it for political purposes or for
journalistic purposes, and they must be granted it based on the language in the amendment. That is what my concern is.
So, again, it just neutralizes the impact of the supervisor of elections' concerns because it just gives carte blanche for
anyone. All they have to do is say, I want it for political purposes, and they must be granted that.
2:52:34
Mr. Chair? Go ahead, I'll come to you in one second, Senator Whitaker, Legal Counsel Ayala, go ahead. Mr. Chair, one
of the ways to make sure that the Senator's request remain intact would be perhaps within the internal affairs of the Board
of Elections, to have the Board of election in the form that they produce make it specific that documentation for the
person requesting the information be identified and specified in the form indicating that, for example, such a Jan Doe
came in, Jan Doe is requested to put some kind of ID, some kind of organization to which he belongs to, and make sure
that perhaps maybe there is an oath to be taken that this information shall not, you know, leave here or be used
specifically for that.
2:53:22
But that would be an internal section of the vote of election. Thank you very much for that. Senator Whitaker, you're
recognized for your point of inquiry. Point of inquiry to the sponsor, just around the contracts provision, because we may
not know, and just from background and knowledge, there are contracts that have very sensitive information, and that
certainly would not need to be related to the public. There are different kinds of contracts with respect to the election
system, and so I just to put that out upon entry to the sponsor the it should be the consideration of what types of contracts
um would be available to the public please recognize um i i think what is not being recognized is a lot of this language
comes directly out of the vi code and the vi code all of these listings in regards to contracts already is sitting there so we
did not attempt to change the specific things we added some stuff but we didn't change the parts about affidavits and con
all of that from my recollection and we could pull up the code is sitting right there in the law currently what we were
attempting to do was add stuff where things could be more accessible to the public, but we really did not change a lot of
the context of what already exists in the code as to what could be retrieved. And I want to put on the record, we also
stress in here, as it relates to the public inspection part, that nothing in this section may be construed to require the
disclosure of information that is prohibited from disclosure by law.
2:54:34
During the last hearing, we had testimony and we also heard a report that the Board of Elections shared with us as to
sharing sensitive information by law you can't share. So we are fully aware and the board is fully aware of the
information that they cannot share with the public. So I, as a sponsor, don't need to list those things, because the law
already exists, and they, as a board, know what they can and cannot do. Thank you. Thank you very much, Senator
Heiliger.
2:56:34
So this does not open the door for me to put out personal information. Thank you, Senator Francis Heiliger. Point of
information, Senator Payne. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, to the bill sponsor, I think what Mr. Chair was
trying to actually explain, the document should read these records are open to public inspection for election scholarly
journalistic political or governmental purposes and the board shall provide copies of such documents not later than 10
days you should remove to any member of the public thank you for the time mr. chair thank Thank you very much.
2:57:07
I think we've exhausted our round of questioning on this matter. We're going to move forward with this bill, Senator
Francis Heiliger. I think we've exhausted this round, we've exhausted all of our discussions on this. Do I hear briefly,
very briefly Senator Heiliger, you recognize for your point of information? I just want to put on the record for this, I'm
here. Senator Whitaker, Senator Frances Heiliger is recognized for her point of information. Please recognize Senator
Frances Heiliger's microphone.
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Thank you so much. I just would like to thank my colleague for bringing that up as we did share and discuss a few
moments ago that we said that that could be easily altered and amended as if that is the only issue where we would just
remove the words any member of the public and we just, if that was the only issue, I did share with you a moment ago I
would be more than willing to amend it and have it removed before it gets to the floor. Thank you very much. to put that
on the record. Thank you. Thank you very much, Senator Francis Heiliger. One last point of inquiry, Senator Genevieve
Whitaker, briefly please.
2:58:37
It's a point of information. Title 18, Section 53 already provides and provides a framework as sponsors indicating for the
public inspection. What I am just emphasizing is a concern over what information. So again, the law already speaks to
what can be inspected. I want to make sure that as we take the official transcription of what's going on today is that the
law already speaks to what some of the documents that can be shared. And there needs to be an emphasis on the safety of
the information. Thank you.
2:59:17
Thank you very much. Colleagues, we've exhausted our testimony in this matter. And do I hear motion at this at this time
motion senator payne you're recognized for your motion thank you the motion is already on the floor senator 10-4 senator
payne you're recognized for your motion uh mr chair i remove um request my motion please okay okay amendment uh
the motion with drawn senator johnson you're recognized for your amendment thank you very much mr chair mr chair i
have a technical amendment to bill number 34 0147 anywhere in this bill where there's 2021 inserted i move that
anywhere in the bill where there's 2021 inserted that it be removed and 2022 replace may be replacing it iso move
properly moved by senator johnson do i a second second probably moved by senator johnson seconded by senator
whittaker hearing No objections? So ordered.
2:59:54
Is there a motion? Is there a motion? Senator Whitaker, you're recognised for your motion. Thank you, thank you,
Chairman. I move that bill number 34-0147, an act amending the Virgin Islands Code, Title 10, Chapter 1, Sections 2 and
3, relating to the discrimination and account of race to include discrimination on the basis of hair texture or protective
hairstyle, and amending Title 17, Chapter 3, relating to the education to enact the creating and respectful and open world
for National Hair Act or the Virgin Islands Crown Act as amended.
3:01:15
I so move. Second. I move that bill number 34-0147, an act amending the Virgin Announce Code, Title 10, Chapter 1
sections 2 and 3 relating to the discrimination on account of race to include discrimination on the basis of hair texture or
protective hairstyle and the men in title 17 chapter 3 relating to the education to enact the creating a respectful and open
world for natural hair act or the virgin house crown act as amended that the that the measure be forwarded to the
committee and rules industry and move to the full body for full consideration i so move point of order point of order
point i said there's a motion on the floor point okay we'll have a point of order that takes precedent over any other motion
point of order senator francis you're recognized for your point of order Mr. Chair, we need to go back.
3:02:04
Let's take a recess, please. We need to go back to the amendment. Again, the amendment was not properly executed. So
at this time, the motion is improper before us until we're able to complete the amendment. Okay, thank you very much.
The Committee on Rules and Judiciary stands in recess for three minutes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. J-S-S-M-O-L-A-R-C-A-L
3:03:24
Thank you. Committee on Rules and Judiciary is back on the record, just for the edification of the general public. We had
some technical issues with some of the motions that were presented, and just so that everything can be official, we're
going to just restate some of the motions.
3:07:48
So do I hear, uh, do I hear an amendment amendment, Senator Johnson, you're recognized for your amendment. Mr.
Chair, I have a technical amendment and I move that bill number 34 0 1 47, everywhere where it states 2021 will we be
moved and replaced with 2022 i so move properly moved by senator johnson seconded by senator payne second and
senator whitaker second hearing no objections So ordered. So moved. Is there a motion? Second. Second. Do I have a
motion?
3:08:43
Motion. I move that bill number 34-01. Senator Whitaker, you're recognized for your motion? Chairman's a little bit of
echo on this side here. I mean. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. chairman's a
little bit of echo on this side here let me start over i move that bill number 34-0147 an act amending the virginal's code
title 10 chapter 1 sections 2 and 3 relating to discrimination on account of race to include discrimination on the basis of
hair texture or protective hairstyle and amending title 17 chapter 3 relating to the education 10 act the Creating a
Respectful and Open World for Natural Hair Act or the Virgin Islands Crown Act as amended to be forwarded to the full
body for further consideration. I so move. Second. Properly moved by Senator Whitaker, seconded by Senator Payne,
objected to by Senator Carla Joseph.
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roll call on bill number 34-0147 senator novelle e francis jr senator novelle e francis jr you said nay senator kenneth l
gittins senator gittins absent senator franklin d johnson yes senator johnson yes yay senator carla j joseph no senator
joseph nay senator stephen d payne senior senator payne yay senator milton e potter yes senator potter yay senator
genevieve r whitaker yay senator whitaker yay mr chair we have four yay two nay one absent thank you very much
colleagues bill number 34.0147 an act amending the virgin island's code title 10 chapter 1 sections 2 and 3 relating to
discrimination on account of race to include discrimination on the basis of hair texture texture or protective hairstyle and
amending title 17 chapter 3 relating to education to enact the creating a respectful and open world for natural hair act or
the virgin islands crown act as amended has been favorably considered by the committee on rules and judiciary and will
be forwarded to the full body for further consideration colleagues do i hear a motion or amendment
3:10:48
Committee on Rules and Judiciary stands in recess for two minutes. We'll be right back. Thank you. [3 such phrases
repeated 8 times · standby audio before the proceeding, transcribed by the recogniser as speech]
3:12:44
we're back on the record committee on rules and judiciary is back on the record do i hear a motion senator whitaker
you're recognized for your motion motion i move I move that Bill No. 34-0149, an act amending the version announce
code, Title 18, Chapter 3, Section 53, updating the record keeping practices of the Board of Elections to ensure all official
records relating to elections are accessible to the public through the use of technology and cloud-based services be held in
the Committee rules and judiciary onto the call of the chair i still move second properly moved by senator whitaker
seconded by senators johnson and pain roll call on the motion to hold bill number 34.0149 senator novelle e francis jr
senator novelle e francis jr senator kenneth l gittins senator gittins senator francis yay No.
3:16:44
Senator Kenneth L. Gittins. Senator Gittins, absent. Senator Franklin D. Johnson. Yay. Senator Johnson, yay. Senator
Carla J. Joseph. Senator Joseph, yay. Senator Steven D. Payne, senior. Senator Payne, yay. milton e potter yes senator
potter yay senator genevieve r whitaker yay senator whitaker yay mr chair we have six yay one absent thank you very
much colleagues bill number 34-0149 an act amending the virgin islands code title 18 chapter 3 sections 53 updating the
record-keeping practices of the Board of Elections to ensure all official records relating to elections are accessible to the
public through the use of technology and cloud-based services has been held in the Committee on Rules and Judiciary at
the call of the Chair. Senator Frances Heiliger, you're recognized for your point of personal privilege. Thank you so
much.
3:18:31
First of all, I would like to say thank you to my colleagues for considering these two pieces of legislation. As it relates to
the Crown Act, I would like to say I appreciate the dialogue as we attempt to move this to the floor. I think this piece of
legislation speaks for itself because no type of discrimination should ever be in our society, especially when it comes to
anything that is God-given. As I would also like to express thank you to my colleagues that have signed on to that piece
of legislation, Senator Genevieve Whitaker, Senator Marvin Blyden, Senator Johnson, and I really appreciate the support
as we continue on this journey, and I look forward to a favorable vote on the Senate floor. As it relates to the second bill
for elections, thank you once again for hearing me. I took into consideration what was said in our efforts to protect the
public but also give them the much needed transparency in order to deal with our election system. The only thing I will
say is I will make the necessary amendments in order to guarantee or hope that this piece of legislation comes to fruition
because the public wants transparency. I know this is what, the third time? But I guarantee you I will continue to push
because I am out there, I am speaking to the public and I know what they're asking me as their representative to do and I
am here to represent them. So thank you so much, Mr. Chair, for the time and thank you to my colleagues for your
support thank you very much
3:19:58
Senator Francis Heiliger point of personal privilege Senator Carla Joseph you're recognized for your point of personal
privilege and then Senator Francis you'll be recognized afterwards thank you kindly Mr. Chairman I just wanted to be
clear on my vote for bill number 34.0147 relative to the Crown Act and the level of discrimination that it indicates that is
evident here in the Virgin Islands. Definitely, I'm in support of us as a people being able to wear our hairstyles in a
natural way.
3:21:45
My major concern is relative to the vetting. This bill specifically speaks about the university, the Virgin Islands
Department of Education, the Virgin Islands Board of Education, a school district, a university. And so because
fundamentally you want to hear what these individuals have to say about levels of discrimination in our community
relative to hairstyles in the public sector, because that's what we're looking at, We did not have that discussion and
dialogue with the Board of Education, the University of the Virgin Islands, nor the Department of Education. I must add
that I recall that several years ago, there was a case of young people who hairstyled, it was in a newspaper, that was
being, had an issue, and they were in the public schools, and the public school system rectified it. legislations are pushed
forward to correct social ills to bring a level of parity to address a need so my concern is to definitely for us to be able to
have a good dialogue with these entities to see if these things are occurring and not to necessarily follow the lead of the
3:22:25
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nation which in the continental united states we as a people of brown and uh dark skin are not the majority and so we
understand the culture here of what we have to deal with in the virgin islands and so it looks for me as far as a need thank
you kindly mr chairman for uh your leniency thank you very much senator joseph senator francis you're recognized for
your point of personal
privilege thank you very much mr chair i just wanted to publicly express all condolences to the family and friends of the
late errol dindsay a former employee of the division of of transportation here at the Virgin Islands legislature. He served
as a chauffeur and a messenger for the legislature for about 24 years and retired from the legislature in December of
2020. Again, he passed away recently on the last Saturday, February the 5th, 2022, and we want to publicly offer our
condolences on the behalf of the legislative family to his family. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
3:24:20
Thank you very much, Senator Francis. The Committee on Rules and Judiciary stands in recess for one minute. We'll be
right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.
3:25:04
Committee on Rules and Judiciary is back on the record. A brief point of information, Senator Frances Heiliger. I wanted
to put on the record quickly that as it relates to the invitees at the previous hearing for the Crown Act, we did attempt to
reach out to the education areas, board, et cetera, and apparently at that time they had something scheduled and they
could not make it. In addition, that was also the same hearing. They did not show up to the second part and the education
committee subpoenaed them. So I just don't want it to be on the record that the attempt wasn't made, but they just were
not available for that day. Thank you. Thank you very much. Colleagues, we've exhausted today's agenda. We should
express gratitude to my personal staff along with central staff for their usual hard work behind the scenes making
everything happen. The Committee on Rules and Judiciary meeting is hereby adjourned.
3:27:04
We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Transcription by CastingWords Transcribed by ESO, translated by · Thank you.
Thank you. We'll see you next time.
3:28:25
People named in this transcript
SUSPECTED, and a finding aid only. Names were matched by machine against the spellings used across all 426 of our transcripts, and the
title is the one used in the room. Being named here is NOT evidence that a person attended or spoke · only that the name was said. Speech
recognition mishears names, so a spelling may be wrong even where no alternative is offered.
23x
Senator Genevieve R. Whitaker
heard in this transcript as: Genevieve R. Whittaker, Genevieve Whitaker, Whitaker, Whittaker
19x
Senator Alma Francis-Heyliger
the surname alone also matches: Alma Francis Heiliger
heard in this transcript as: Alma Frances Heiliger, Alma Francis Heiliger, Frances Heiliger, Francis Heiliger, Heiliger
13x
Senator Carla Joseph
the surname alone also matches: Clifford Joseph; Karla J. Joseph
heard in this transcript as: Carla J. Joseph, Joseph
11x
Senator Novelle Francis
heard in this transcript as: Francis, Novel Francis, San Francis
11x
Senator Steven D. Payne Sr.
heard in this transcript as: Payne, Steven D. Payne, Steven D. Payne Sr
10x
Senator Franklin D. Johnson
heard in this transcript as: Franklin Johnson, Johnson
8x
Senator Marvin Blyden
heard in this transcript as: Blyden, Blyton, Marvin A. Blyden
8x
Senator Milton E. Potter
heard in this transcript as: Milton Potter, Potter
5x
Senator Kenneth L. Gittens
heard in this transcript as: Gittins, Kenneth L. Gittins
2x
Governor Albert Bryan Jr
heard in this transcript as: Albert Bryan
2x
Senator Karla J. Joseph
the surname alone also matches: Carla Joseph; Clifford Joseph
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2x
Senator Marvin A. Blighton
heard in this transcript as: Blighton
Bills and acts referred to
Matched by number against our own acts corpus. The number is what the recognition heard, so it may be wrong; where it resolved, the title is the one
the Legislature gave the act.
Bill 34-0147
Act 8553 · March 24, 2022 · An Act amending the Virgin Islands Code title 10, chapter 1, sections 2 and 3, relating to
discrimination on account of race to include discrimination on the basis of hair texture or protective hair style; and
amending title 17, chapter 3 relating to education to enact ·The Creating a Respectful and Open World for Natural Hair Act·
or ·The Virgin Islands Crown Act·
Act 7827
Act 7827 · An Act amending title 27 of the Virgin Islands Code adding chapter 4A establishing the Board of Licensed
Counselors and Examiners, providing for the licensure of persons to practice counseling, and for other related purposes
Act 8553
Act 8553 · March 24, 2022 · An Act amending the Virgin Islands Code title 10, chapter 1, sections 2 and 3, relating to
discrimination on account of race to include discrimination on the basis of hair texture or protective hair style; and
amending title 17, chapter 3 relating to education to enact ·The Creating a Respectful and Open World for Natural Hair Act·
or ·The Virgin Islands Crown Act·
Referred to but not found in our acts corpus: Bill 34-0190, Bill 34-0149, Bill 31-0134
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